Nicole Cooke, Cycling Role Model ?

[mattsccm]

As a rider I like Cooke but sadly she has a knack of upsetting people. Doesn't seem to say anything nice. Got a grudge maybe? Fair enough but she isn't likeable and that's important. As she hasn't provided any proof of doping or said that she can't for legal reasons it is hard to separate fact from sour grapes. Shame really.
I think we have to forget the equality issues. What would you rather see? A safe gold from Jason Kenny or maybe a top 10 from a woman.? Limited funds, must go for the safe bet.
Remember road cycling at top levels is professional and commercial. You can bet that Sky would be spending the millions they do on the current team, on a women's team if it had the marketing power. It won't so why bother?

[mjr]

Can someone remind me what medals the "safe bet" men's road race squads won in Limburg or Tuscany world champs, please?

[landsurfer]

Can someone remind me what medals the "safe bet" men's road race squads won in Limburg or Tuscany world champs, please?

They probably weren't there .... They where off doing professional and commercial stuff. ....

[mjr]

Can someone remind me what medals the "safe bet" men's road race squads won in Limburg or Tuscany world champs, please?

They probably weren't there .... They where off doing professional and commercial stuff. ....

They were there. You just don't remember because only the junior women won any golds.

[landsurfer]

Can someone remind me what medals the "safe bet" men's road race squads won in Limburg or Tuscany world champs, please?

They probably weren't there .... They where off doing professional and commercial stuff. ....

They were there. You just don't remember because only the junior women won any golds.

When where the Limburg and Tuscany worlds then .....?? I genuinely don't remember them taking place .... I'm a cyclist not a "Cycling fan ".

[mjr]

They probably weren't there .... They where off doing professional and commercial stuff. ....

They were there. You just don't remember because only the junior women won any golds.

When where the Limburg and Tuscany worlds then .....?? I genuinely don't remember them taking place .... I'm a cyclist not a "Cycling fan ".

2012 and 2013, linked above, where the women maybe were being punished for Armitstead's post-Olympics comments on sexism or maybe it was just sexism or maybe it was a rational decision to put all the resources into the safe bet men's road race team that won no medals and IIRC had no finishers in Florence.

[pwa]

As a rider I like Cooke but sadly she has a knack of upsetting people. Doesn't seem to say anything nice. Got a grudge maybe? Fair enough but she isn't likeable and that's important. As she hasn't provided any proof of doping or said that she can't for legal reasons it is hard to separate fact from sour grapes. Shame really.
I think we have to forget the equality issues. What would you rather see? A safe gold from Jason Kenny or maybe a top 10 from a woman.? Limited funds, must go for the safe bet.
Remember road cycling at top levels is professional and commercial. You can bet that Sky would be spending the millions they do on the current team, on a women's team if it had the marketing power. It won't so why bother?

Her dad told me that when she first turned professional and went to stay in rented accommodation with members of her new team she was disgusted to find illegal substances kept in the fridge alongside the yoghurts. Imagine that, as a teenager, nervous and lonely on your first period away from the family home. She told them that stuff had to go or she would be on the first flight home. We need principled people like her in sport. If everyone in sport were like Nicole we wouldn't need to bother with testing.

Even though her parents live nearby I don't see her much, but I remember cycling home from work at about 5.30pm and on the last, steep uphill lane she caught up with me. I had panniers and was going along sedately, but instead of cycling past she slowed to my pace and chatted for a minute or two before going on ahead. Nice and friendly. Just talking about the potholes and stuff like that. In real life she is a decent person, possibly a bit uneasy with the media.

[Spinners]

As a rider I like Cooke but sadly she has a knack of upsetting people. Doesn't seem to say anything nice.

Astonished at this. Read her autobiography. She has plenty of nice things to say about lots of nice people, especially at the grass roots end of our sport.

[Flinders]

As a rider I like Cooke but sadly she has a knack of upsetting people. Doesn't seem to say anything nice. Got a grudge maybe? Fair enough but she isn't likeable and that's important. As she hasn't provided any proof of doping or said that she can't for legal reasons it is hard to separate fact from sour grapes. Shame really.
I think we have to forget the equality issues. What would you rather see? A safe gold from Jason Kenny or maybe a top 10 from a woman.? Limited funds, must go for the safe bet.
Remember road cycling at top levels is professional and commercial. You can bet that Sky would be spending the millions they do on the current team, on a women's team if it had the marketing power. It won't so why bother?

Her dad told me that when she first turned professional and went to stay in rented accommodation with members of her new team she was disgusted to find illegal substances kept in the fridge alongside the yoghurts. Imagine that, as a teenager, nervous and lonely on your first period away from the family home. She told them that stuff had to go or she would be on the first flight home. We need principled people like her in sport. If everyone in sport were like Nicole we wouldn't need to bother with testing.

Even though her parents live nearby I don't see her much, but I remember cycling home from work at about 5.30pm and on the last, steep uphill lane she caught up with me. I had panniers and was going along sedately, but instead of cycling past she slowed to my pace and chatted for a minute or two before going on ahead. Nice and friendly. Just talking about the potholes and stuff like that. In real life she is a decent person, possibly a bit uneasy with the media.

I think I need to get her book.
When I have heard her speak, or read her writing in the press, I have been favourably impressed. I have certainly never got the impression she had a chip on her shoulder. I have the impression that she is a lot smarter than the average bear in cycling, which might be why she gets more flack.

[Flinders]

She always came across as not being a team player. Her attitude towards Lizzie at the 2012 Olympics was appalling.

Not to me particularly, but I didn't see very much of her riding so I can't be definitive about my opinion.
OTOH I wouldn't say that Froome was/is, but I don't see him getting the same flack.

[TrevA]

She always came across as not being a team player. Her attitude towards Lizzie at the 2012 Olympics was appalling.

Not to me particularly, but I didn't see very much of her riding so I can't be definitive about my opinion.
OTOH I wouldn't say that Froome was/is, but I don't see him getting the same flack.

I think Froome proved he's a team player in the 2012 Tour. He was strong enough to ride away from Brad, but didn't so Brad ended up winning the Tour. Froome is now the undisputed leader, so you wouldn't expect him to play a team role. Nicole was the team leader in 2008, but not in 2012.

Nicole was one the the world's best at her peak, but she only won the senior Worlds once. Compare her to Marianne Vos. A similarly talented and dominant rider, but Vos has had far more success. You could perhaps argue that Cooke underachieved, given her undoubted talent.

[pwa]

She always came across as not being a team player. Her attitude towards Lizzie at the 2012 Olympics was appalling.

Not to me particularly, but I didn't see very much of her riding so I can't be definitive about my opinion.
OTOH I wouldn't say that Froome was/is, but I don't see him getting the same flack.

I think Froome proved he's a team player in the 2012 Tour. He was strong enough to ride away from Brad, but didn't so Brad ended up winning the Tour. Froome is now the undisputed leader, so you wouldn't expect him to play a team role. Nicole was the team leader in 2008, but not in 2012.

Nicole was one the the world's best at her peak, but she only won the senior Worlds once. Compare her to Marianne Vos. A similarly talented and dominant rider, but Vos has had far more success. You could perhaps argue that Cooke underachieved, given her undoubted talent.

I think you will find that Nicole agrees with that and attributes it to not competing on a level playing field.

[mjr]

Nicole was one the the world's best at her peak, but she only won the senior Worlds once. Compare her to Marianne Vos. A similarly talented and dominant rider, but Vos has had far more success. You could perhaps argue that Cooke underachieved, given her undoubted talent.

Maybe, but if you suspect a consistent lack of support from British Cycling as part of the rumoured ABC (Anybody But Cooke) plan, then her Worlds record was pretty good: 1 gold, 1 silver, 2 bronze and 2 4th places, with her gold and bronze coming from understrength teams and the 4th places from divided loyalties. Meanwhile, Vos had a full-strength and maximum-size team that seemed willing to back her whenever it seemed she had a reasonable chance.

2002 Worlds 35th in a group 27 seconds back, 2003 3rd with 4 in the GB team (top nations had 6 - I'm pretty sure we qualified 5 but didn't take them - Cooke blamed having to chase too much herself for coming third), 2004 24th with 4 in the team (same), 2005 2nd with a full team of 6, 2006 3rd with a team of 4 (entitled to 6?), 2007 injured, 2008 won with a team of 5 (of 6? - plus GB controversially chased down a break containing Armitstead), 2009 DNF with a full team of 7 (abandoned out-of-form following illness), 2010 4th (a full GB team but divided between Cooke and Armitstead), 2011 4th (same), 2012 59th with a team of 5 but we'd qualified more, as I mentioned earlier.

[Daniel Fox]

I recommend reading her book. It is a very good read.

She had to fight a lot of battles with the system.

One that stands out. 2002 she won Gold at the Commonwealth Games. 2006 she was told she would have a team of Welsh cyclists to support her. In the end she was sent on her own.

The Welsh mens team sent 6 riders. None of them finished even finished

She got bronze solely on her own efforts.

[TrevA]

I recommend reading her book. It is a very good read.

She had to fight a lot of battles with the system.

One that stands out. 2002 she won Gold at the Commonwealth Games. 2006 she was told she would have a team of Welsh cyclists to support her. In the end she was sent on her own.

The Welsh mens team sent 6 riders. None of them finished even finished

She got bronze solely on her own efforts.

Yes, I've read it. I can't help thinking that some of the battles were of her own making.

However, on her day she was one of the best women cyclists ever to ride for GB and certainly the best Welsh woman. I remember her winning the Commonwealths in Manchester, she crashed with about a mile to go, got up, chased down the leaders and still won.

Problem in 2006, was there wasn't really anyone else good enough. This was in the days before women's cycling really took off, in the early days of BC's talent identification system and whilst there were some young and talented Welsh girls then, they weren't old enough or yet good enough to be able to support Nicole. One of the disadvantages of having separate nations in the Commonwealths, is the dilution of the GB talent pool by dividing it into 4 or 5 separate groups (Eng/Wal/Sco/NI/IoM).