Disqualified drivers

[thirdcrank]

From time to time posters have urged greater use of driving bans to deal with bad driving and I've expressed reservations about how effectively driving bans are enforced. Apparently the numbers caught ignoring bans have increased.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38887951

I fancy that this is the tip of a very large iceberg

[reohn2]

..........I fancy that this is the tip of a very large iceberg

I think you're right,when the cat's away.....

No police = no threat.

The words window and dressing spring readily to mind.....

[rjb]

It sounds like the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If caught the penalty should reflect the offence. I would have expected a hefty fine, car repossed and sold on (not crushed as this is a waste ). Increase in disqualification time.

If the penalty is justified this should deter offending.

[thirdcrank]

There's a quote in the link from a North Yorkshire Police traffic PC. Once upon a time, West Yorkshire was a leader in traffic policing and North Yorkshire was something of a joke. That's now completely reversed. Travelling from Leeds, it's only necessary to cross the boundary into North Yorkshire (in broad terms formed by the A1 and the River Wharfe) to notice a big difference in terms of active traffic policing. I assume it's different priorities decided by the respective PCC's.

[whoof]

This person pleaded guilty to dangerous driving. They also have a previous conviction for dangerous driving. They have been banned from driving and awaiting further sentence, they are on a suspended sentence for another unrelated offence. He has 12 or 13 (so many they are unsure) previous convictions for driving whilst disqualified.

I like to part where he says he is an excellent driver!

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... y-12499937

If the penalty for driving whilst disqualified is a further disqualification what's the point.

[thirdcrank]

It's amazing how many defendants come out with silly comments while they are still awaiting sentence. At the very least they risk the "remorse" discount going down the drain.

[Psamathe]

It sounds like the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If caught the penalty should reflect the offence. I would have expected a hefty fine, car repossed and sold on (not crushed as this is a waste ). Increase in disqualification time.

If the penalty is justified this should deter offending.

That is a good idea, even if it is not the banned drivers car (really, don't interpret that as any indirect dig). If somebody borrows their mate's car when banned and gets caught their mate loses their car and the banned driver becomes liable to the person they borrowed it off. OK, maybe a bit tough but include it as punishment the lender has also committed an offence. Or, I suspect that as driving when banned is an offence, just also prosecute the lender as an "accessory".

It would be helped by some enforcement but as a separate issue, if anybody had helped the banned driver then prosecute them as an accessory (with a lot of publicity) so it would make "mates" less likely to lend their car or be anywhere around as they might then also get banned, etc.

Ian

[reohn2]

It sounds like the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If caught the penalty should reflect the offence. I would have expected a hefty fine, car repossed and sold on (not crushed as this is a waste ). Increase in disqualification time.

If the penalty is justified this should deter offending.

What deters criminals from offending initially and re-offending,is being caught and a penalty that hurts enough to make them not think it's worth doing again.
The problem is catching them in the first place,something of which the chances are fairly low and random.
Unless the offender is stopped by police for an offence(fat chance)or is recognised by a bobby as a disqualified driver(fat chance)or flagged up on ANPR*,they've little to no chance of being caught.
There's a chap close to where I live,who was driving on false plates for almost three years on two different cars,one of which had false diplomatic plates fitted!!
All this despite various people reporting him over the length of the time he was doing it and police officers visiting him on a couple of occasions whilst the cars were on his drive!
He was finally caught when quite by chance a police officer happened to be in his street on another matter as he drove up the street,and was pointed out by one of the neighbours who'd been reporting him.

*I could go out now buy a common car,say a ten year old mega miles Focus for peanuts,find another similar legal car in another part of the country copy the reg plates fit them to the car I've bought.Then drive around with impunity unless I'm stopped by the police(fat chance).It's that easy if you're willing to risk it and have nothing to lose.


The problem is one of detection,if they knew there was a good chance of being caught the scroats wouldn't risk it.
And that's before we even begin to consider the woefully inadequate sentencing and wiggle room for those who can afford a 'get you off with it' lawyer.
I'm convinced in a lot of cases prison doesn't work,and fining people with no money is useless,however hard labour would have a big impact if rigidly enforced IMHO.
I'm all for automatic vehicle confiscation for more serious offences.
I'm also convinced we live in a criminal's paradise.

[millimole]

reohn2 is quite right it is a criminals paradise. However if you were to follow some of the road traffic policing Twitter feeds it's astonishing (to me) how many ANPR stops result in finding disqualified driver, drunk/drug drivers and those that have committed other crimes (eg drugs offences). If a disqualified driver is driving uninsured then it seems they can have the car crushed. It also appears that the cloning of number plates is being tackled by the ANPR systems talking to each other' - so if you are simultaneously in Devon and Cumbria then the system will flag both of you up, resulting in a 'stop' (hopefully).
Of course this is all very clever and very sensible use of technology, but it comes back down to having the bodies on the ground to do the spade work in the first place, and there doesn't seem to be the political will to put those bodies there for roads policing.


You can easlily remove the Tapatalk spam using settings on YOUR phone

[thirdcrank]

There is a post somewhere (by irc?) quoting stats for the number of ANPR alarms (if that's the correct word) which are ignored. In the early days, the technology got a bad name for false alarms but it's significantly better now.

I mentioned North Yorkshire Police being keen on traffic matters and here's one that's been at court in the last couple of days for using jamming equipment to evade detection.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-38883401

And here's a similar one from the same force.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-31604908

Traffic police are an endangered species, but happily not yet extinct and small populations are flourishing in parts of Yorkshire.
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PS In the earlier case (ie my second link) the driver went to gaol. The driver in the more recent case didn't.

The judge said: "I hope the message goes out from this court to everyone else that perverting the course of justice almost inevitably leads to a custodial sentence. It's only your exceptional character that has prevented you from being jailed immediately."

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/91mp ... spartanntp

[blackbike]

How about jailing banned drivers caught driving for a period equal to the original duration of the ban?

People are already jailed for contempt of court in other circumstances.

[Shootist]

It sounds like the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If caught the penalty should reflect the offence. I would have expected a hefty fine, car repossed and sold on (not crushed as this is a waste ). Increase in disqualification time.

If the penalty is justified this should deter offending.

That is a good idea, even if it is not the banned drivers car (really, don't interpret that as any indirect dig). If somebody borrows their mate's car when banned and gets caught their mate loses their car and the banned driver becomes liable to the person they borrowed it off. OK, maybe a bit tough but include it as punishment the lender has also committed an offence. Or, I suspect that as driving when banned is an offence, just also prosecute the lender as an "accessory".

It would be helped by some enforcement but as a separate issue, if anybody had helped the banned driver then prosecute them as an accessory (with a lot of publicity) so it would make "mates" less likely to lend their car or be anywhere around as they might then also get banned, etc.

Ian

Tough? Not in the least. My main hobby is shooting. If one of my 'mates' borrowed one of my rifles and got caught with it then regardless of the circumstances I would lose my firearms certificate, most probably on a permanent basis. Many people wet themselves at the mere thought of licenced firearms ownership and would faint clean away in the presence of a legally held firearm and yet are perfectly happy to let car drivers slaughter their way around the world quite happily. I think that if a disqualified driver is discovered then the car should be crushed; it has a happy air of finality about it. I'm not entirely sure that crushing the car while the driver in question was sitting inside it would be a bad thing either.

[reohn2]

......... I'm not entirely sure that crushing the car while the driver in question was sitting inside it would be a bad thing either.

Yer a hard man Shootist

[Cyril Haearn]

ANPR ++1

[Shootist]

ANPR ++1

Just catches the stupid ones. And it does need a police officer present to actually catch the driver in the act.