Cost of Underpasses

Adnepos
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby Adnepos » 28 Feb 2017, 10:42am

I agree that changing the geometry of both roundabouts will be the only option now left open.

The existing path heading south from the site of the proposed eastern Bypass roundabout has always been silly for a variety of reasons. One that I didn't mention above is that walkers and cyclists want to access the western side of that main road; 'nobody' currently uses the path because it is not fit for purpose. An argument based on current lack of use is flawed.

If the planners had removed their digit (dialogue started over 2 years ago), then options such as smaller roundabouts and moving the proposed underpass a short distance to the west (where the Bypass will be on an embankment) could have been considered.

Finally, a new pedestrian and cycling route along the west of the main road, heading south from the eastern Bypass roundabout is part of the long-term plan.Without adequate crossing of the Bypass, this route will not happen; putting in an adequate crossing at a later date will be very expensive.

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gaz
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby gaz » 31 Oct 2018, 7:40pm

I believe the Ely southern bypass is now open. Any update on the facilities, attempts to influence the design, etc?

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mjr
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby mjr » 31 Oct 2018, 8:39pm

gaz wrote:I believe the Ely southern bypass is now open. Any update on the facilities, attempts to influence the design, etc?

Depends what you mean by open. It said on Look East today that cycleways and footways are still being completed :roll:

It's also overrun by £13m, bringing the total to £49m IIRC.
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Adnepos
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby Adnepos » 31 Oct 2018, 10:23pm

gaz wrote:I believe the Ely southern bypass is now open. Any update on the facilities, attempts to influence the design, etc?


Yes, as far as the motoring community is concerned, the bypass is open.

Some signs, tactile pavement and useless shared pedestrian/cycling infrastructure at one end of the bypass -poor quality and isolated from any other walking or cycling facility.

Critically, no underpass or any other aid to crossing the A142 at any point along the route of this new bypass.

Very disappointing.

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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby MikeF » 1 Nov 2018, 7:12pm

Adnepos wrote:
gaz wrote:I believe the Ely southern bypass is now open. Any update on the facilities, attempts to influence the design, etc?


Yes, as far as the motoring community is concerned, the bypass is open.

Some signs, tactile pavement and useless shared pedestrian/cycling infrastructure at one end of the bypass -poor quality and isolated from any other walking or cycling facility.

Critically, no underpass or any other aid to crossing the A142 at any point along the route of this new bypass.

Very disappointing.
Indeed. Why does it always have to be like this? I'm involved with a very minor consultation with the LA to improve facilities for cycling and walking on a short section of road (money is available), but even so it's very hard to convey what's needed. Design is just outsourced to a contractor (WSP in this case) who either seem to be given a poor brief or haven't any idea of provision needed.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

Pete Owens
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby Pete Owens » 1 Nov 2018, 11:40pm

Adnepos wrote:
Critically, no underpass or any other aid to crossing the A142 at any point along the route of this new bypass.


I'm not sure that is quite true. About half of it appears to be a bridge which crosses the railway, the river and the NCN 11 cycleway. As pointed out above the cyclepath on the road from Soham is on the other side of the road, so doesn't need to cross the bypass. Unfortunately, far from putting in compact roundabouts at either end of the bypass, they seem to designed huge high-speed jobs, vastly over-engineered for the volume of traffic using the road which will be very hostile for cyclists.

However, there is a window of opportunity now to re-purpose the former rout of the A142 through the town. Now that through traffic has been removed the streets can be made more pedestrian and cycle friendly and better connect the station to the town. It needs to be done quickly, before new traffic grows to fill the void.

Rob Archer
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby Rob Archer » 3 Nov 2018, 5:26pm

I've been following this project with interest as my wife is starting a new job in Soham next week. She plans to travel by train to Ely then cycle. When the weather's OK she'll use NCN11 but there's a mile of unsurfaced, muddy track near Barway which can be all but impassible in really wet weather and she's naturally concerned that some sections are very lonely and exposed. WE haven't tried using the direct A142 yet as, from memory it's a busy, truck infested road with a very narrow footway on one side.
Any locals out there with any suggestions as to options?

landsurfer
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby landsurfer » 3 Nov 2018, 5:30pm

There is a construction industry website that works out, on line, what every road structure should be tendered for ... because infrastructure is not based on cost+, but award/budget methods of work ...
It's not about the bike .. It's about the journey .....
The Road Goes On Forever ........................

Adnepos
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby Adnepos » 4 Nov 2018, 2:51pm

Pete Owens wrote:
Adnepos wrote:
Critically, no underpass or any other aid to crossing the A142 at any point along the route of this new bypass.


I'm not sure that is quite true. About half of it appears to be a bridge which crosses the railway, the river and the NCN 11 cycleway. As pointed out above the cyclepath on the road from Soham is on the other side of the road, so doesn't need to cross the bypass. Unfortunately, far from putting in compact roundabouts at either end of the bypass, they seem to designed huge high-speed jobs, vastly over-engineered for the volume of traffic using the road which will be very hostile for cyclists.

However, there is a window of opportunity now to re-purpose the former rout of the A142 through the town. Now that through traffic has been removed the streets can be made more pedestrian and cycle friendly and better connect the station to the town. It needs to be done quickly, before new traffic grows to fill the void.


Point taken on the underpass, NCN11! Helpful to get (on a poor road) to Barway but a long way round to Soham.

The existing 'cycle path to Soham' is a joke. There is a poorly-surfaced, narrow footway hard up to the road (A142) that takes you a couple hundred of yards southbound before you are expected to cross the A142 and take a nice quiet road through a village (Stuntney). After the village you would need to re-cross the A142 and cycle on that road the main part of the way to Soham.

The planners and politicians must be a little 'put out' by the consequences of this new by-pass. The traffic on this new route is decanting onto an intersection with the A10 that has caused the hometime congestion on the northbound A10 to be much worse that it had been. I suppose the motor lobby will now be pulling out those A10 dualling plans...

As far as repurposing the old A142, the planners have already fixed their ideas for that road near the station. And yes, walking and cycling has been de-prioritised over motoring interests. There are lots of people who cycle from Ely to its station and these 'repurposing plans' do little to help -I accept that the already-built bypass will take a lot of traffic off the route and this is good. There are no plans for the old A142 near the new bypass -just some promises for something when there are funds.

pga
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby pga » 4 Nov 2018, 6:21pm

There is always a reluctance to provide underpasses as they do cost money. Nevertheless thery should, with bridges,always be part of any main road design. Yes.there are sometimes problems with underground services which favours bridges over underpasses but bridges are more vulnerable to inclement weather, eg ice. Also a decent underpass is a good place to fix a punctute.

Highway design today compares very unfavourably with the early railway builders who provided underpasses and bridges not just for roads and tracks (now often rights of way) but for linking both sides of a farmer's field.

Adnepos
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Lack of Underpass

Postby Adnepos » 5 Nov 2018, 2:56pm

pga wrote:There is always a reluctance to provide underpasses as they do cost money...

Underpasses cost much much less if installed at the time the highway is built. In this case, apparently there were some impediments to building the underpass, which could probably have been overcome. But in this instance, the planners seem to have 'thrown in the towel' without considering the options.

No aided crossing at all (see my above post that described the existing cycling access), not even 'at grade'.


Oh - I see that the builders have started work on re-purposing of the old route, near Ely Station.

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mjr
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Re: Cost of Underpasses

Postby mjr » 5 Nov 2018, 4:54pm

Rob Archer wrote:I've been following this project with interest as my wife is starting a new job in Soham next week. She plans to travel by train to Ely then cycle. When the weather's OK she'll use NCN11 but there's a mile of unsurfaced, muddy track near Barway which can be all but impassible in really wet weather and she's naturally concerned that some sections are very lonely and exposed. WE haven't tried using the direct A142 yet as, from memory it's a busy, truck infested road with a very narrow footway on one side.
Any locals out there with any suggestions as to options?

As far as I know, the only other route is the National Byway from Ely via Prickwillow to Soham and that's about 11 miles (instead of 7½ via Barway or 5 straight down the A142) so you almost might as well get off at Littleport and ride to join it at Prickwillow (also 11 miles to Soham that way) except that it would mean doing a bit of the horrible ratrun by the Great Ouse and the west end of the bit alongside the Lark is in a terrible state - dry, but surfaced with smashed up ceramic tiles when I last rode it. :-(

If Barway gravel road is impassable, the next least worst looks to be using just over a mile of the A142 from Stuntney to Barway Road and using Blockmoor Road, but that's probably going to be a bit of 5 minutes of the least fun cycling one can do. There's not even footway the ¾ mile from Nornea Road to Barway Road, despite there seeming to be pretty clear space in the highway corridor. :-(
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Adnepos
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Ely and Soham

Postby Adnepos » 5 Nov 2018, 8:18pm

Cycling between Ely and Soham, see

http://elycycle.org.uk/projects/ely-to-soham/