the benefits of congestion

MikeF
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby MikeF » 2 Mar 2017, 9:22am

New lower Thames crossing being discussed now. :roll: First the M25 had northbound and southbound tunnels. That was fine to start with, but then traffic increased. New Queen Elizabeth Bridge (5 lane is it?) was installed to alleviate the problem, but now traffic has increased. So new Thames is "needed". And when that becomes congested ...........

One consequence of road building is that it partitions the land especially for "wildlife", but most people don't worry about that. However it can also partition land for those of us on foot, bicycle and horse etc. eg Ely road discussed elsewhere. For example the M3 could have been tunnelled through the South Downs avoiding the protests and destruction. Some of the A27 around Brighton has been tunnelled, but much more could be done and land bridges, effectively short tunnels can also be used, leaving land above intact.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

Pete Owens
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby Pete Owens » 3 Mar 2017, 1:14am

andrewk wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
So, it got me to thinking. What if congestion were terrible all the time. What if we limited traffic to a couple of main throughfares, and only allowed it off into residential areas for access. Would more people cycle? Just to get away from the nightmare traffic? Can we do an experiment somewhere with this? What is the tipping point at which people start to cycle? It is down to journey time?


Wishing congestion on others merely to promote cycling is myopic, stupid, anti social and self defeating.
1. Perpetual congestion may well drive people out of their cars but it is not given, IMO unlikely that it would drive them to cycling. A motorcycle or scooter being more likely.
2. Such anti car attitudes are what make the majority ( and with good reason ) dislike cyclists and dismiss them as weirdos.
3. Congestion increases pollution which harms everyone which means YOU too.


Oh dear I think we have a driver with an overblown sense of entitlement on our hands. To be clear about this - congestion is caused by too many people choosing to drive private cars. For a motorist to complain about congestion is rather like taking a package tour to Benidorm and complaining there are too many tourists.

Nobody is wishing congestion on drivers - drivers are actively bring this upon themselves (or rather each other) But it is perfectly reasonable to point out that if we take no measures to limit demand then demand is eventually self limiting via congestion. And anyone who castigates any measures to limit car use as "Anticar" is actively campaigning for congestion.

jgurney
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby jgurney » 3 Mar 2017, 1:32am

andrewk wrote: the majority ( and with good reason ) dislike cyclists


If you are not a cyclist why are you here?
If you are one, why, if you think being so is a good reason to dislike yourself?

brynpoeth
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby brynpoeth » 3 Mar 2017, 5:08am

jgurney wrote:
andrewk wrote: the majority ( and with good reason ) dislike cyclists


If you are not a cyclist why are you here?
If you are one, why, if you think being so is a good reason to dislike yourself?


When cycling I hate drivers, joggers, other cyclists sometimes

When driving I hate drivers, I do not hate cyclists

When walking I often hate cyclists and joggers who pass too close
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Vorpal
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby Vorpal » 3 Mar 2017, 6:50am

Why hate anyone? That's not going to make the roads a better place.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Bmblbzzz
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby Bmblbzzz » 3 Mar 2017, 9:43am

Vorpal wrote:Why hate anyone? That's not going to make the roads a better place.

Amen! And that includes all those hating on andrewk.

brynpoeth
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby brynpoeth » 3 Mar 2017, 7:33pm

Vorpal wrote:Why hate anyone? That's not going to make the roads a better place.


I hate the ******* who ignore the law and endanger me

Sadly I have been driving to work for a few months. I do not exceed the maximum speed limits. I imagine the normal drivers hate me even more than I hate them, I just ignore the terrorists

Do you have an alternative to hating?
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brynpoeth
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby brynpoeth » 3 Mar 2017, 7:36pm

andrewk wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
So, it got me to thinking. What if congestion were terrible all the time. What if we limited traffic to a couple of main throughfares, and only allowed it off into residential areas for access. Would more people cycle? Just to get away from the nightmare traffic? Can we do an experiment somewhere with this? What is the tipping point at which people start to cycle? It is down to journey time?


Wishing congestion on others merely to promote cycling is myopic, stupid, anti social and self defeating.
1. Perpetual congestion may well drive people out of their cars but it is not given, IMO unlikely that it would drive them to cycling. A motorcycle or scooter being more likely.
2. Such anti car attitudes are what make the majority ( and with good reason ) dislike cyclists and dismiss them as weirdos... .


What good reason(s)? Weirdos? Please explain briefly
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Vorpal
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby Vorpal » 3 Mar 2017, 7:38pm

brynpoeth wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Why hate anyone? That's not going to make the roads a better place.


I hate the ******* who ignore the law and endanger me

Sadly I have been driving to work for a few months. I do not exceed the maximum speed limits. I imagine the normal drivers hate me even more than I hate them, I just ignore the terrorists

Do you have an alternative to hating?

If someone actually endangers you, report them to the police. Otherwise, enjoy the ride. That is a much better alternative than hating :D
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

reohn2
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby reohn2 » 3 Mar 2017, 9:06pm

Hate = have an intense dislike for.

I have an "intense dislike" for stupid people who threaten the well being of other road users and who's presence on the road I witness almost daily.
Like the idiot only yesterday,driving a souped up loud hatchback coming in the opposite direction who overtook a horse and rider far too close and way too fast,leaving the rider shaking her head in disbelief,it was a good job the horse was a placid animal.
There are many,many,other idiots I could mention who attract my ''intense dislike'' some who I have reported and some who I haven't been able too,but who I don't "intensely dislike" any less.
TBH they make my blood boil and that's mainly because their antics are to save themselves less than a minute on their sad journey through life at other people's expense and possible safety.
Moronic lunatics isn't strong enough a term for these idiots.

Writing this I've been reminded of an incident some 25 years ago whilst on our way home after lovely seaside holiday in North Devon,heading north on the M5 towing the caravan with Mrs R2 beside me and my two youngest daughters aged 10 and 12 sat in the back seat.
As we cleared a 50 limit controflow,we were in lane one and as the traffic began to speed up an articulated tanker had just overtaken us and was a four cars in front in lane 2.
A very fast moving car cut straight across the front of it from lane 3 into lane 1 and exited the motorway at the junction immediately in front of us all causing the tanker driver to brake hard,his double axle trailer wheels locked up (which caused me to to think he was empty)slewed across the front of us causing me to brake as I feared I'd run into the rear of him,but he just carried on smoke pouring off the rear trailer wheels.
I saw his rear wheels ride straight over two of the cars in front of us and swipe one car out of the way into the Armco barrier,the fourth car was trapped under the trailer between tractor and trailer wheels.
We had a grandstand view of everything before us like it was in a film.

As everything stopped I jumped out of the car and ran to see if there was anything I could do,the first car I came to was upside down with two young men in their early twenties inside,I opened the door,both incredibly were unhurt.
The next car was in an L shape with the driver still sat in his seat in shock and his wife crushed in the rear seat but conscious she looked injured but not seriously.
Someone else went to the other car where the occupants again weren't seriously injured.

The tanker was some 50m up the road as if it'd had been parked up on the hard shoulder,it was only then I saw the bonnet of a car sticking out from under the trailer,there was a small fire burning from under it's bonnet .I got to within 30+m when the lot exploded.
Fearing my own safety,I turned and ran back,there were a few more explosions as the tyres went up.

Someone phoned for the emergency services,ambulances,police,and fire service they arrived on the southbound carriageway in what seemed like ages but was no more than 15minutes.
They cut out a part of the central armco barrier to gain access to the northbound carriageway,then efficiently put out the fire,attended to and carted the injured from the cars to hospital.

I was concerned about the occupants of the car under the tanker and the tanker driver and asked the police.
The officer in charge later came came back and after taking a statement told me the tanker driver had jumped clear and escaped up the embankment though I never saw him.
The occupants of the car,a young couple and a child of about 1 to 2 years old were dead,either by the impact or the fire.

I positively and intensely hate the driver who caused that.
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brynpoeth
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby brynpoeth » 4 Mar 2017, 11:05am

Tiredness caused by driving for too long is a serious problem

I used to drive through Newbury before the bypass was built. It was gr8 having to drive slowly through the town, I opened my window and relaxed a bit

Another benefit of congestion

What is it like in/around Newbury now?
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reohn2
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby reohn2 » 4 Mar 2017, 11:50am

brynpoeth wrote:Tiredness caused by driving for too long is a serious problem

I used to drive through Newbury before the bypass was built. It was gr8 having to drive slowly through the town, I opened my window and relaxed a bit

Another benefit of congestion

What is it like in/around Newbury now?



It's reasonable to interrupt a journey for a break if a driver is tired and not rely on congestion to do it for them.


As an aside,I'm always surprised at how relaxed I am when I drive towing the caravan,I used to think it was because we were going on holiday,but I've come to the conclusion it's because I drive slower due the the extra weight and speed limit restrictions,food for thought perhaps.
i also believe there's some merit regarding congestion if traffic were made to drive slower easing out the blocks of traffic between TLs,junctions,etc.
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brynpoeth
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Re: the benefits of congestion

Postby brynpoeth » 4 Mar 2017, 6:22pm

reohn2 wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Tiredness caused by driving for too long is a serious problem

I used to drive through Newbury before the bypass was built. It was gr8 having to drive slowly through the town, I opened my window and relaxed a bit

Another benefit of congestion

What is it like in/around Newbury now?



It's reasonable to interrupt a journey for a break if a driver is tired and not rely on congestion to do it for them.

.. .


Indeed, one should take a break before one gets tired but many do not. Crawling through Newbury allowed them to rest a bit

I find driving relaxing too, on the motorway at least :)
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Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life