Kickstarter - CyclingUK asking for donations to fund "close pass" mats.

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Paulatic
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Re: Kickstarter - CyclingUK asking for donations to fund "close pass" mats.

Post by Paulatic »

Bez wrote:
Paulatic wrote:Recently read a discussion on Twitter , driver stating cyclists should be prosecuted for being further out than the 75. :(


Meh, so what. If you're going to take someone expressing a dodgy opinion on Twitter as a sign of anything at all then I think you can conclude anything about anything as a result.


It's surely a sign of how some motorists, albeit uneducated, are drawing conclusions about the mat. Just as earlier in the thread it was mentioned motorists discussing being caught for a close pass.
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Mattyfez
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Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Mattyfez »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40571699

Apologies if already posted, what is really worrying is that some don't take the offer of training or a fixed penalty, protest thier innocence even after seeing the footage of thier driving, and go to court..
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Had an NIP sent out for an incident last week, where an independent witness also reported the 'questionable behaviour' of a van driver...

Hopefully this sort of thing can get taken seriously.
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Bez
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Bez »

Mattyfez wrote:what is really worrying is that some don't take the offer of training or a fixed penalty, protest thier innocence even after seeing the footage of thier driving, and go to court..


Only one has done it so far, out of a few hundred.

And that's not worrying, it's just a legitimate use of the legal system. Had he been let off it would have been worrying.

What actually is worrying, though, is that numerous police forces are reluctant to do what WMP are doing, despite that WMP are scoring a 100% success rate with publicly submitted videos of close passes. Hampshire in particular refuse to even look at any video submissions that don't involve serious injury, and when a police force consciously and explicitly decides not to investigate evidence that is not only near-certain evidence of an offence, but is near-certain of an offence which offers a near-certain chance of being successfully acted upon at minimal cost, some serious questions need asking.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Tangled Metal »

Depends on whether you think police forces should be able to prioritize their own resources according to their identified needs. Prosecutions do take up police resources, even slam dunk ones.

It would he nice to see zero tolerance policing on the annoying crimes that affect middle classes like close passes on your bike. It's a grand dream to have everything policed right.
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Bez »

Of course. But Hampshire deploy several officers on several nights of the year to stand by the road handing out yellow beanie hats and yellow vests to people riding bicycles perfectly legally. That's what they prioritise.

And if you think it's a middle class problem I think it's worth browsing the fatality lists: they're certainly not filled with IT managers on Pinarellos. How do you think people who can't afford cars get to work?
Tangled Metal
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Tangled Metal »

That was a really a view that other crimes have greater importance to those of lower status income due to living in areas with high crime rates for more serious crimes.

If you live in an area where there's little in the way of violent crime, drug dealing, etc then fear of that drops but fear of close passing cars might increase. It's that effect in was alluding to with the middle class comment.

I'm sure if there's been a gang war in your streets you're not going to complain about the police not going after the close passser! Extreme example but you can understand my thinking.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Tangled Metal wrote:That was a really a view that other crimes have greater importance to those of lower status income due to living in areas with high crime rates for more serious crimes.

If you live in an area where there's little in the way of violent crime, drug dealing, etc then fear of that drops but fear of close passing cars might increase. It's that effect in was alluding to with the middle class comment.

I'm sure if there's been a gang war in your streets you're not going to complain about the police not going after the close passser! Extreme example but you can understand my thinking.


Yes I would complain about failure to enforce traffic law if there was a lot of other crime, one understands that those who commit traffic crimes commit other crimes too and vice-versa

Enforcing traffic law is as easy as taking candy from a baby, or as easy as picking up the rotten fruit from the ground in an orchard as I prefer to say

Just read about a truck that turned over and landed in the ditch. The driver told the cops he lost control after choking while drinking while driving. How stupid can one be? First to drink and second to admit it, or maybe that is commendable honesty? :wink:
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Mattyfez
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Mattyfez »

That's an extreme case, the problem is a lack of general lack of respect for others. It's a social issue.

Same as people riding quad bikes and moto cross on the road,.
Bez
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Bez »

What, even if it's done legally and responsibly? Let's not go down the "all users of {vehicle_type} are bad" road, we know where that goes.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Tangled Metal »

Yes giving.a hardened.criminal 3 points is effective in preventing further crime.
Pete Owens
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Pete Owens »

Tangled Metal wrote:That was a really a view that other crimes have greater importance to those of lower status income due to living in areas with high crime rates for more serious crimes.

Criminal motorists cause more death, injury and property damage that the rest of the crimial population put together, so Im am curious what you think is more serious.
If you live in an area where there's little in the way of violent crime, drug dealing, etc then fear of that drops but fear of close passing cars might increase. It's that effect in was alluding to with the middle class comment.

And you have your preconceptions about class inverted. The thing about motoring crimes is that it tends to be committed BY the middle classes and the lower orders are disproportionately victims.

The perception that bad driving is somehow not a serious crime is that the opinion forming classes tend to be middle class motorists.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Convictions starting to happen for close passing

Post by Tangled Metal »

Well I guess I'm out of step with things, along with the people.allocating police resources.
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Kickstarter - CyclingUK asking for donations to fund "close pass" mats.

Post by The utility cyclist »

I was passed extremely closely by an Arriva bus doing 50mph on a single carriageway two weeks back. after banging on the side of the bus as he was stuck in a queue of traffic and asking him what kind of driving was that he states he never even saw me and turns back to ask his passengers if they'd seen me :twisted: :roll: An exchange of verbals and I'm in front of the bus taking his number (still a queue of traffic to join a very busy dual with no lights) when he gets off the bus with mobile phone in hand, he gets right up close and threatens to put me (back) in hospital, I had a visible bandage on my arm from a blood test not 10 minutes previous. I just coughed in his face to get him to move away.
A guy from the car in front gets out and breaks things up.

I report it to police, the officer basically states that she could do me for public order offence, to which i reply let's go that route then, she then backs off and says but she doesn't want to. I get a phone call this week, the bus company stated they didn't have cctv on that particular bus to which I'm calling BS on that, the officer hasn't even checked the bus nor has identified the driver in any case. So she said she wouldn't do anything re the driving but would take a statement from me regarding public order offence for the driver for his threats.

Now if she's saying my word is enough for her to follow through pertaining to a public order offence then why isn't it enough for the more threatening driving offence? :evil:
Basically unless you are armed with a camera the police aren't interested in doing anything, how did the police deal with poor driving in the past when reported by members of the public when there was no 'evidence' apart from the word of the victim?

Is there any evidence thus far that this initiative (AKA actual enforcement of the law as it already existed) has made things safer for people on bikes, how is that measured?
thirdcrank
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Re: Kickstarter - CyclingUK asking for donations to fund "close pass" mats.

Post by thirdcrank »

The utility cyclist wrote:... how did the police deal with poor driving in the past when reported by members of the public when there was no 'evidence' apart from the word of the victim?...


Before the cutbacks in traffic policing, when a crash came to the notice of the police, it was the norm for one of the drivers to be prosecuted for "due care." Even when witnessed by the police, it was much less usual for there to be a due care prosecution without a crash. That's why we have speed limits, double white lines up the middle of the road and all the rest of it: they replace the element of opinion with something which isn't subjective eg crossing a double white line is an offence, end of.

..Is there any evidence thus far that this initiative (AKA actual enforcement of the law as it already existed) has made things safer for people on bikes, how is that measured?


I doubt if there is, not least because the only objective measure is casualty counting, which isn't the same as that subjective feeling of safety.
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