Kickstarter - CyclingUK asking for donations to fund "close pass" mats.

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gaz
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Re: Kickstarter - CyclingUK asking for donations to fund "close pass" mats.

Post by gaz »

Psamathe wrote:Where did the "Think Bike" (for motorcycles) come from, who pushed for it, designed it installed the signs, etc.? I see a fair number of the "Think Bike" (motorcycle) signs around.

Think! are the Road Safety arm of the DfT. Signs are typically installed through local authority road safety campaigns, either using the standard DfT verions or sometimes local variations on the theme.
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Vorpal
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Re: Kickstarter - CyclingUK asking for donations to fund "close pass" mats.

Post by Vorpal »

Psamathe wrote:
reohn2 wrote:It would've been better if local councils funded by central government,invested in such signs posted permenantly and fitted to speed limit roundals on known well used cycling routes in their areas,with a view to fitting more on all roads in the longer term :wink:
That sounds like the sort of thing CTC/CUK should be pushing for - in the interests of cyclists and cycling, making things safer for us all ...

And it probably would not cost that much if such signs were installed as other routing works were carried out (e.g. vegetation clearing round signs, repairing damaged signs, etc.).

Where did the "Think Bike" (for motorcycles) come from, who pushed for it, designed it installed the signs, etc.? I see a fair number of the "Think Bike" (motorcycle) signs around.


Think! Road Safety is done by the DfT sometimes in conjunction with other groups.

They've done some about cycling, as well. Unfortunately, unlike the motorcycle ones, the pedal cycle ones seem to be focused on cyclists' behaviour. They did one that I liked about riding centrally in narrow lanes, but the latest definitely put the onus on cyclists not to get squished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7lBvN80JaQ

They treat children the same way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxHBVgM9zfg

Horses, though are another matter... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-xdmWwz4cg

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ianrobo
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WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by ianrobo »

These figures are very conclusive

https://west-midlands.police.uk/news/39 ... first-year

Evidence and fact based policy WORKS and helps all both driver and cyclists

UK Cycling described #OpClosePass as the “best cyclist road safety initiative ever".


So happy to see it prove to be a resounding success and we should use this in all debates
Psamathe
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by Psamathe »

Far more data is needed to conclude anything. e.g. what is the natural variability. Just because it dropped from 115 (previous 12 months) to 95, what if it was only 73 in the 12 months before that ?

Without some historical data it looks to me like selective use of statistics to prove a point and as such is highly suspicious. I'm not saying there is no effect, just that from the data given one can conclude nothing (except suspicion as to why such limited data has ben presented).

Ian
ianrobo
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by ianrobo »

Psamathe wrote:Far more data is needed to conclude anything. e.g. what is the natural variability. Just because it dropped from 115 (previous 12 months) to 95, what if it was only 73 in the 12 months before that ?

Without some historical data it looks to me like selective use of statistics to prove a point and as such is highly suspicious. I'm not saying there is no effect, just that from the data given one can conclude nothing (except suspicion as to why such limited data has ben presented).

Ian


true and we need 4/5 years of it but come on take it as a positive because the message got out. If all forces and govt did this, the scenery for us WOULD change.
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meic
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by meic »

If the word has got out that there are plain clothes cops out on bikes, who are not too busy to give you some grief, then I am pretty sure that that will change attitudes towards cyclists.
Then there is also the threat that they will act on civilians' video footage.

I agree the stats dont prove anything but they are in line with what I would expect.
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ianrobo
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by ianrobo »

it is carrot and stick, as most of the times they would pull a driver over and just show him errors of his ways (almost all are men),

Messaging is VERY important in this area and WMP have made it clear we are entitled to the safety of the law and road and consideration of all road users.

Remember they did this to get down KSI's that showed so many cyclists died and as proof this works I suspect they will target bad driving in general far more seriously,
ianrobo
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by ianrobo »

it is carrot and stick, as most of the times they would pull a driver over and just show him errors of his ways (almost all are men),

Messaging is VERY important in this area and WMP have made it clear we are entitled to the safety of the law and road and consideration of all road users.

Remember they did this to get down KSI's that showed so many cyclists died and as proof this works I suspect they will target bad driving in general far more seriously,
thirdcrank
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by thirdcrank »

The positives for me here are that it seems that some operational traffic officers have decided that something needs to be done and they are doing it. They are occasionally managing to get some wider publicity, and concern that close overtaking may lead to police action including prosecution may spill over into other areas. Not everybody by any means is aware of different police areas so they may still be influenced if they never go near Brum. Also, this hasn't been a one-off "clampdown" AKA media stunt but has continued long-term, even if they can't be doing it every day.

One year's results cannot be conclusive, partly because there's no data on other things like the level of cycling during the year, but a casualty reduction is still welcome in itself. A more accurate comparison might be to analyse close passing crashes. Crashes at junctions will not be directly influenced, although the knowledge that the police are active in respect of cyclists' safety might have an useful indirect effect. If it continues another year, we'll have a better set of stats and it will reflect even more police commitment.

On the main thread I posted that it would be useful to hear from any local riders about whether they feel any difference. Is the typical driver in Brum giving riders more room? Subjective, anecdotal, but a few happy riders would impress me more than a lot of stats.

The negative for me is that a lot of mats were bought through the generosity of crowd-funders and we get few reports of their being rolled out.
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edit to remeve an embarrassing typo :oops:
Last edited by thirdcrank on 23 Sep 2017, 6:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
Psamathe
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by Psamathe »

ianrobo wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Far more data is needed to conclude anything. e.g. what is the natural variability. Just because it dropped from 115 (previous 12 months) to 95, what if it was only 73 in the 12 months before that ?

Without some historical data it looks to me like selective use of statistics to prove a point and as such is highly suspicious. I'm not saying there is no effect, just that from the data given one can conclude nothing (except suspicion as to why such limited data has ben presented).

Ian


true and we need 4/5 years of it but come on take it as a positive because the message got out. If all forces and govt did this, the scenery for us WOULD change.

Your original post talked about "evidence" and "fact". Why have the Police declined to provide such evidence and fact. Easy to do if they are really monitoring how well their initiatives work. Police spin stats as much as politicians - they are trying to prove to the public that they are doing good ... and when they fail to provide decent stats cherry picking one should be suspicious.

And if the real stats don't show an improvement then why would "the scenery for us WOULD change". The "scenery for us WOULD change" only if the initiative worked and the Police have decided not to provide the data to show is works (why not ?).

Ian
Psamathe
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by Psamathe »

thirdcrank wrote:.....
The negative for me is that a lot of mats were bought through the generosity of crowd-funders and we get few reports of their being rolled out.

My suspicion is that in reality the costs of the mats is trivial compared to the cost of running the campaign for even one day (several officers, bike, vehicle(s), video recording, etc., etc.).

Ian
thirdcrank
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by thirdcrank »

My first post on the main "Close Pass" thread began

Overall, I think that if there was any real police interest in ... er ... rolling these mats out nationally, then the price of the mats would not be a hurdle.

viewtopic.php?p=1106686#p1106686

That other thread is still current - last post on 14 September - and it might have achieved some continuity had this thread been a continuation of it.

viewtopic.php?p=1163545#p1163545
ianrobo
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Re: WMP - Police Close pass works

Post by ianrobo »

thirdcrank wrote:On the main thread I posted that it would be useful to hear from any local riders about whether they feel any difference. Is the typical driver in Brum giving riders more room? Subjective, anecdotal, but a few happy riders would impress me more than a lot of stats.


Good question and one I have thought about, has it been better ? I said it could have been but almost impossible to quantify it.
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Si
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Re: Kickstarter - CyclingUK asking for donations to fund "close pass" mats.

Post by Si »

Ive noticed no difference. Seemed to be plenty of people trying to push past our group today. But there again if 1% of drivers are nutters and 99% careful and considerate, its the 1% that you remember.
ianrobo
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Re: Kickstarter - CyclingUK asking for donations to fund "close pass" mats.

Post by ianrobo »

and in any debate that last sentence is key to remember
Last edited by ianrobo on 23 Sep 2017, 9:04pm, edited 1 time in total.
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