Imposing Speed Limits for Cyclists

[MikeF]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/david_smith_35

This person has made 35 identical FOI requests to Scottish Councils. Why?

[Paulatic]

They've been asking the very same question in Edinburgh
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpres ... p?id=17771

If I was to guess it's probably a journalist going to argue against the blanket 20mph hoping to be introduced in Scotland

[Psamathe]

How can you impose a speed limit where the regs for the vehicle require no speed measuring device.

Ian

[The utility cyclist]

it would seem one council seems to think speed limits apply to people on bikes as they must obey ALL traffic signs/signals

[The utility cyclist]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/david_smith_35

This person has made 35 identical FOI requests to Scottish Councils. Why?

Because they've been overtaken by a person on a bike a few times and also 'cut up', because obviously motorists have never ever done that despite speed limits ...

[drossall]

How can you impose a speed limit where the regs for the vehicle require no speed measuring device.

Ian

Because compliance with the law is your problem, not the authorities'. If they impose a law and you need a measuring device to comply with it, you need to get one. This is in line with the general principle that ignorance of the law (i.e. not knowing you were breaking the law) is not an excuse, or people would be pleading ignorance all the time. Of course, there's an implied contract that they won't impose unreasonable laws, but speed limits aren't unreasonable.

I believe that some very old cars don't have speed measuring devices either. Nonetheless, they are subject to speed limits.

Contrary to popular belief, the reason that bikes aren't subject to speed limits has nothing to do with whether they have speedometers. It's simply because Parliament chose to frame a law that says, in effect, that drivers of motor vehicles may not exceed the designated speed limits on the public roads.

Away from those roads, for example on sea fronts and in the Royal Parks, the relevant authorities have no difficulty in imposing speed limits for bikes through byelaws. Since those are framed under legislation different from that mentioned above, they can apply to vehicles without motors.

[MikeF]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/david_smith_35

This person has made 35 identical FOI requests to Scottish Councils. Why?

Because they've been overtaken by a person on a bike a few times and also 'cut up', because obviously motorists have never ever done that despite speed limits ...

We don't know the reason for asking. He may be a cyclist, but I suspect not. He could be a pedestrian who's been nearly hit by a fast cyclist. He may be an anti cycling car driver as you suggest. It's a strange request and looks like he may want to mount a campaign.

[The utility cyclist]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/david_smith_35

This person has made 35 identical FOI requests to Scottish Councils. Why?

Because they've been overtaken by a person on a bike a few times and also 'cut up', because obviously motorists have never ever done that despite speed limits ...

We don't know the reason for asking. He may be a cyclist, but I suspect not. He could be a pedestrian who's been nearly hit by a fast cyclist. He may be an anti cycling car driver as you suggest. It's a strange request and looks like he may want to mount a campaign.

If you read it he specifically states he's being overtaken and cut in on by people on bikes whilst driving, that's how I read it anyway and hence why i thought it was part/(all?) of the reason.

[MikeF]

Because they've been overtaken by a person on a bike a few times and also 'cut up', because obviously motorists have never ever done that despite speed limits ...

We don't know the reason for asking. He may be a cyclist, but I suspect not. He could be a pedestrian who's been nearly hit by a fast cyclist. He may be an anti cycling car driver as you suggest. It's a strange request and looks like he may want to mount a campaign.

If you read it he specifically states he's being overtaken and cut in on by people on bikes whilst driving, that's how I read it anyway and hence why i thought it was part/(all?) of the reason.

Where did you read that? Have you a link? It doesn't say that on the FOI request.

[delap]

The utility cyclist wrote:

MikeF wrote:

The utility cyclist wrote:
Because they've been overtaken by a person on a bike a few times and also 'cut up', because obviously motorists have never ever done that despite speed limits ...

We don't know the reason for asking. He may be a cyclist, but I suspect not. He could be a pedestrian who's been nearly hit by a fast cyclist. He may be an anti cycling car driver as you suggest. It's a strange request and looks like he may want to mount a campaign.

If you read it he specifically states he's being overtaken and cut in on by people on bikes whilst driving, that's how I read it anyway and hence why i thought it was part/(all?) of the reason.

Where did you read that? Have you a link? It doesn't say that on the FOI request.

The South Ayrshire response contains a comment from another user of the site that nearly says what is claimed:

EyeSpy left an annotation (19 June 2017)

Thank you. An interesting question, as I am often cut up, undertaken by cyclists when driving, but also as a pedestrian I have had near misses with cyclists ignoring red lights. I would find it interesting if byelaws were in place, how without the easy identification of a licence plate, any cyclist who is not caught in the act by an enforcement officer (who if working for the Council may not even be able to stop a person from just cycling away and ignoring them - as per police would be able to). Issues with individual bad cyclists are something which clearly present a danger, but there is no obvious solution as I am not sure that speed limit byelaws would in reality prevent dangers due to difficulty in enforcement.

[geomannie]

This might be a journalist trawling for info upon which to base an article. "Shock-Horror, Local Authorities Letting Cyclists Off With Speeding".

Mebbees?

[thirdcrank]

Just on the speedo point, which has been dealt with well by drossall, I'd add that it's no longer particularly difficult or expensive to buy and fit an accurate speedo on a bike. I'd go so far as to suggest that many, if not most, of the riders physically capable of achieving 20+mph on the flat fit them as standard and are not unduly diffident about publishing their achievements.

[[XAP]Bob]

I regularly sustain 20+ over 14 miles, and 25+ for various flat sections of that....
I have a GPS log, but no speedo that I could actually refer to. My phone is in a bag.

I don't need a speedo, on longer journeys I quite like having maps available, and normally have two ETAs at the top of the screen, one for the next waypoint, the other for my destination...

[jgurney]

Just on the speedo point, which has been dealt with well by drossall, I'd add that it's no longer particularly difficult or expensive to buy and fit an accurate speedo on a bike.

True. Re. accuracy I suspect that cycle speedos are subject to significantly less rigorous requirements over accuracy and calibration than are motor vehicle ones. Presumably the only legal restraint upon selling grossly inaccurate cycle speedometers at present is the Sale of Goods Act requirement that goods be of merchantable quality. I don't know what else applies to motor vehicle ones, but I suspect it's rather more than that.

If a very basic cycle speedo was offered in a pound shop, what degree of error might be considered to still amount to merchantable quality at that price?

Cycle speedos usually rely on the user accurately entering their wheel size (which may itself be pretty nominal depending on the tyre fitted). Some may well get that wrong - presumably a reason why car speedos are not calibrated in the same way.

Would there have to be a significant tightening of these regulations if cycle speed limits were common and speedo accuracy issues began to be raised in court?

[thirdcrank]

As drossall explained, the responsibility for complying with the law is with the individual. I'm just pointing out that fitting a reasonably accurate speedo to a pedal cycle is no longer the pita it used to be. I doubt that there's any likelihood of general speed limits being introduced for pedal cycles because of the bureaucratic faff for little gain, but I'd have said that about fixed penalties for cycling on the footway: there are votes in cracking down on cyclists.

Anyway, the argument that cyclists would have difficulty measuring their own speed accurately is no longer valid, IMO.

(PS I've posted before that as a stickler for accuracy, I once road to-and-fro all afternoon on the measured mile that starts near Ellis Briggs former premises in Shipley. After doing a + or - after each mile, I checked and I was back with the default setting on a CatEye Mity 2 some years ago.)