Illegal 'Cyclists Dismount' signs?

[bikepacker]

Campagaining against the installation of cattle grids is a loser from the start from a cyclists POV as they're there to control stock movements which IMO is far more important than inconveniencing cyclists occasionally.

When someone with the experience, knowledge and esteem such as John Franklin states they are dangerous in the situations proposed by AONB. I tend to believe him.

If campaigning against them is a loser, how come out of the 19 cattle grids proposed, only 3 were installed and only 2 of them on a public road.

[reohn2]

Campagaining against the installation of cattle grids is a loser from the start from a cyclists POV as they're there to control stock movements which IMO is far more important than inconveniencing cyclists occasionally.

When someone with the experience, knowledge and esteem such as John Franklin states they are dangerous in the situations proposed by AONB. I tend to believe him.

I agree cattle grids can be dangerous especially when not maintained or in bad weather,but there is the alternative of a side gate for pedestrians and equestrians that cyclists can use if they feel they're too dangerous to ride over.

If campaigning against them is a loser, how come out of the 19 cattle grids proposed, only 3 were installed and only 2 of them on a public road.

If that were the case what was used in their place to control livestock movement?
If it were gates then cyclists are inconvenienced just the same as a cattle grid.
If nothing was used then livestock needn't have been controlled,so the application to construct them is puzzling.

EDIT; I'd be the first to stand up for cyclist's rights but still don't see the point in arguing against cattle grids if they're needed.

[bikepacker]

It was not only cyclists who objected. A majority of residents in the areas affected opposed so did horse riders and their organisations.
Control is now done by moveable electric fencing as it always was.

[reohn2]

It was not only cyclists who objected. A majority of residents in the areas affected opposed so did horse riders and their organisations.
Control is now done by moveable electric fencing as it always was.

In those particular cases there was an alternative.
That's not always possible though and in such cases,possibly the majority throughout the country,cattle grids are a better solution for all concerned.

[bikepacker]

It was not only cyclists who objected. A majority of residents in the areas affected opposed so did horse riders and their organisations.
Control is now done by moveable electric fencing as it always was.

In those particular cases there was an alternative.
That's not always possible though and in such cases,possibly the majority throughout the country,cattle grids are a better solution for all concerned.

If like many who would have been affected by animals rampaging through villages, across open plan gardens and using ornamental ponds as a water source, you would not think it a good solution.

[reohn2]

It was not only cyclists who objected. A majority of residents in the areas affected opposed so did horse riders and their organisations.
Control is now done by moveable electric fencing as it always was.

In those particular cases there was an alternative.
That's not always possible though and in such cases,possibly the majority throughout the country,cattle grids are a better solution for all concerned.

If like many who would have been affected by animals rampaging through villages, across open plan gardens and using ornamental ponds as a water source, you would not think it a good solution.

I've already agreed that there was an alternative in the case you were involved in,so don't understand why you insist on pursuing the point

The point I've been trying to make is a general one,that cattle grids aren't the work of the devil,just an effective solution to a problem,and their accompanying 'cyclist dismount' signs an advisory safety warning to be heeded if cyclists wish to,though aren't compulsory.

[bikepacker]

Sorry I forgot you always have to have the last word.

[reohn2]

Sorry I forgot you always have to have the last word.

I don't,I'm simply trying to make the point that cyclists dismount signs are a reasonable sign in the context of cattle grids,and that cattle grids aren't an unreasonable construction to control livestock movement.
The details of the case you were involved in was only revealed over a series of posts,and by all accounts you were right to campaign against them.
Of course you could've mentioned that in your first post on the matter,and why you campaigned against those particular cattle grids but didn't,so anyone posting didn't know the why's and only knew your story in part.
That's why there were so many posts between us before getting to the reasons why you took exception to them.
This has nothing to do with me havimg the last word but trying make a point about cattle grids and the advisory cycling signage.
YVMV and I've no doubt it will

Edited for typos

[thirdcrank]

The OP wasn't really about cattle grids, but rather the use of CYCLISTS DISMOUNT in addition to the recognised warning sign on a road where it cannot now be used. It might have been any CYCLISTS DISMOUNT sign on a road. It's just that one highway authority apparently thought it was a good wheeze to duck liability for any dangerous cattle grids by a general installation of the signs.

If any campaigners want to use this victory as the inspiration for more of the same, they might do well to concentrate on the issue of unlawfully erected CYCLISTS DISMOUNT signs on roads.

[reohn2]

The OP wasn't really about cattle grids, but rather the use of CYCLISTS DISMOUNT in addition to the recognised warning sign on a road where it cannot now be used. It might have been any CYCLISTS DISMOUNT sign on a road. It's just that one highway authority apparently thought it was a good wheeze to duck liability for any dangerous cattle grids by a general installation of the signs.

If any campaigners want to use this victory as the inspiration for more of the same, they might do well to concentrate on the issue of unlawfully erected CYCLISTS DISMOUNT signs on roads.

+1

[Annoying Twit]

It could be argued that a cyclist dismount sign is overkill but without an alternative sign in such a circumstance it's the only sign available unless someone has a better idea.

Couldn't they just have a big sign saying 'cattle grid', and leave the handling of that semi-obstacle up to the road users?

[reohn2]

It could be argued that a cyclist dismount sign is overkill but without an alternative sign in such a circumstance it's the only sign available unless someone has a better idea.

Couldn't they just have a big sign saying 'cattle grid', and leave the handling of that semi-obstacle up to the road users?

They could,but what if in these days of ambulance chasing lawyers,a lack of warning left councils wide open for a compo claim against them should a cyclist fall on a cattle grid?

[Annoying Twit]

It could be argued that a cyclist dismount sign is overkill but without an alternative sign in such a circumstance it's the only sign available unless someone has a better idea.

Couldn't they just have a big sign saying 'cattle grid', and leave the handling of that semi-obstacle up to the road users?

They could,but what if in these days of ambulance chasing lawyers,a lack of warning left councils wide open for a compo claim against them should a cyclist fall on a cattle grid?

I would prefer to think we live in a world or country whereby if potential dangers are brought to the attention of people, that it would then be those people's own responsibility to keep safe. But, I'm not up on current case law on this.

One thing: Are blue 'no swimming' signs on rivers and lakes only advisory?

[reohn2]

I would prefer to think we live in a world or country whereby if potential dangers are brought to the attention of people, that it would then be those people's own responsibility to keep safe. But, I'm not up on current case law on this.

I agree,and I'm no legal expert but I think councils these days try their best to cover their own back first.

One thing: Are blue 'no swimming' signs on rivers and lakes only advisory?

《Thread drift alert》
A quick google came up with this:- http://www.river-swimming.co.uk/legal.htm

[thirdcrank]

On the point of having a sign warning of a cattle grid, there is one already.

There are numerous other warning signs - arguably too often used - of dangers which could not realistically be removed, Z bend being a common example. The one that baffles me is the sign warning of the risk of falling rocks. I can see that there will be some places where this risk cannot be completely removed but what use does the warning serve, in the sense that what action can a road user take in response to the sign to avoid the risk? If it's a matter of "you proceed at your own risk" then there should be signs at junctions on the approaches - as there are with low bridges - warning people what's ahead while choosing another route is still feasible. (Q Would a helmet help with falling rocks? )