Dooring Cyclists

bertgrower
Posts: 173
Joined: 2 Jun 2017, 6:47pm

Dooring Cyclists

Postby bertgrower » 11 Sep 2017, 9:37pm


Tangled Metal
Posts: 5968
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Sep 2017, 10:15pm

£1000 max fine for dooring someone even if it results in a death! When I heard that on r4 this morning it shocked me. Especially when the solution is the Dutch reach. Basically you open the door with the opposite hand. So driver's side you use the left hand. By reaching across the lack of reach forces you to turn towards the right and rearwards so you're more likely to see someone cycling past.

Apparently in the Netherlands kids are taught this from a very young age. We should teach it here too and teach it to adults too.

blackbike
Posts: 2492
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby blackbike » 11 Sep 2017, 10:37pm

The government is never going to punish motorists severely for anything as drivers have votes.

Riding well away from parked cars is the best solution for dooring.

The government should revise and improve its cycling campaigns to make it very clear to cyclists and motorists that cycling in the middle of the lane is acceptable, legal and sensible.

Pete Owens
Posts: 1583
Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby Pete Owens » 11 Sep 2017, 11:10pm

Tangled Metal wrote:£1000 max fine for dooring someone even if it results in a death! When I heard that on r4 this morning it shocked me. Especially when the solution is the Dutch reach. Basically you open the door with the opposite hand. So driver's side you use the left hand. By reaching across the lack of reach forces you to turn towards the right and rearwards so you're more likely to see someone cycling past.

I can only assume you don't own a car.

If you do try it for yourself. Get in your car, reach over to the handle with your opposite hand and admire the splendid view of your door pillar.

Phil Fouracre
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Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 12:16pm
Location: Deepest Somerset

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby Phil Fouracre » 12 Sep 2017, 8:29am

Don't they have door pillars on Dutch cars? :-)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

reohn2
Posts: 36774
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 12 Sep 2017, 8:53am

Pete Owens wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:£1000 max fine for dooring someone even if it results in a death! When I heard that on r4 this morning it shocked me. Especially when the solution is the Dutch reach. Basically you open the door with the opposite hand. So driver's side you use the left hand. By reaching across the lack of reach forces you to turn towards the right and rearwards so you're more likely to see someone cycling past.

I can only assume you don't own a car.

If you do try it for yourself. Get in your car, reach over to the handle with your opposite hand and admire the splendid view of your door pillar.

Then turn your head a little and look through the rear side and back windows,there's a clear view behind,admittedly there's a blind spot on the rear pillar but waiting less than a second will reveal anyone emerging from it.

When the subject was debated yesterday on the JV radio program some of the excuses from motorists for not using the technique or not looking were pathetic,and included the onus was on the cyclist not to get hit,to the technique being a bad idea because someone with a bad back can't twist around in their seat :?
There was nommention of painted cycle lanes adjacent to on street parked car provision,lanes I never ride ride in as they're dangerous .
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I cycle therefore I am.

AlaninWales
Posts: 1542
Joined: 26 Oct 2012, 1:47pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby AlaninWales » 12 Sep 2017, 10:11am

reohn2 wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:£1000 max fine for dooring someone even if it results in a death! When I heard that on r4 this morning it shocked me. Especially when the solution is the Dutch reach. Basically you open the door with the opposite hand. So driver's side you use the left hand. By reaching across the lack of reach forces you to turn towards the right and rearwards so you're more likely to see someone cycling past.

I can only assume you don't own a car.

If you do try it for yourself. Get in your car, reach over to the handle with your opposite hand and admire the splendid view of your door pillar.

Then turn your head a little and look through the rear side and back windows,there's a clear view behind,admittedly there's a blind spot on the rear pillar but waiting less than a second will reveal anyone emerging from it.

When the subject was debated yesterday on the JV radio program some of the excuses from motorists for not using the technique or not looking were pathetic,and included the onus was on the cyclist not to get hit,to the technique being a bad idea because someone with a bad back can't twist around in their seat :?
There was nommention of painted cycle lanes adjacent to on street parked car provision,lanes I never ride ride in as they're dangerous .

Pete is correct, the door pillar and potentially the rear quarter pillar will block substantial portions of the road. The correct solution is to have the side mirrors correctly set so that there are no 'blind spots' (you'd d that anyway right? So that you can drive safely?) and look in these mirrors. Correctly set, they will show anyone alongside or approaching the car from behind: That is precisely what you need to see so as not to endanger any passing vehicle.

The side mirrors are set for the driver of course, so the driver should also be paying attention when stopped, to the actions of the passengers: A sharp "STOP" or whatever IME will prevent passengers from opening the door if there is any danger to another road user. Responsibility for this is the driver's.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28684
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby thirdcrank » 12 Sep 2017, 10:14am

blackbike wrote:The government is never going to punish motorists severely for anything as drivers have votes.

Riding well away from parked cars is the best solution for dooring.

The government should revise and improve its cycling campaigns to make it very clear to cyclists and motorists that cycling in the middle of the lane is acceptable, legal and sensible.


Realpolitik. Something we are foolish to ignore.

"I've posted before" that when there was consultation over the Highway Code some years ago I pointed out that Rules for cyclists" included (and still includes) this:
Rule 67
You should
...
Leave plenty of room when passing parked vehicles and watch out for doors being opened or pedestrians stepping into your path
...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... s-59-to-82

I suggested this should be brought to the attention of drivers by cross-referencing it in the relevant part of the rules for them eg
Rule 212
When passing motorcyclists and cyclists, give them plenty of room (see Rules 162 to 167). If they look over their shoulder it could mean that they intend to pull out, turn right or change direction. Give them time and space to do so.

should include something like "Cyclists are advised to leave plenty of room when passing parked vehicles (see Rule 67) and you should be prepared for them to do so."

Obviously, a lot of drivers ignore the HC but it is something they cannot ignore at test time, even if they don't bother later. Anyway, soon after receiving my copy of the consultation document and before I had made my submission, I received a letter of thanks for my contribution. More to the point, this has never been acted on. I get the impression that these consultations are in stages: they get the views of organisations like the AA. RAC, RHA, which form the basis of proposed amendments so the consultaion is only about them, not bright ideas from nobodies like me. :evil:

reohn2
Posts: 36774
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 12 Sep 2017, 11:12am

AlaninWales
Ive answered your post in the other thread.
Moderators
Two threads running on the same subject which need merging IMHO
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I cycle therefore I am.

Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby Psamathe » 12 Sep 2017, 11:15am

reohn2 wrote:AlaninWales
Ive answered your post in the other thread.
Moderators
Two threads running on the same subject which need merging IMHO

So that's why I'm confused and thinking mods have been wholesale deleting aspects out ...

Ian

reohn2
Posts: 36774
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 12 Sep 2017, 11:19am

Its everyone's duty to avoid collisions,the 'Dutch reach' is just another (good) method of achieving that for all people exiting cars on either offside or nearside.
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I cycle therefore I am.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28684
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby thirdcrank » 12 Sep 2017, 11:22am

It's also everyone's duty to avoid duplicate threads to avoid unnecessary and tiresome work for mods. (Speaking generally, It's a sign of not looking where you are going and vague thread titles - hi-viz needed :wink: )

SA_SA_SA
Posts: 1811
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 1:46pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby SA_SA_SA » 13 Sep 2017, 4:01pm

Isn't the Dutch reach more of a memory aid to remind a person to look?
------------You may not use this post in Cycle or other magazine ------ 8)

reohn2
Posts: 36774
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby reohn2 » 13 Sep 2017, 4:07pm

SA_SA_SA wrote:Isn't the Dutch reach more of a memory aid to remind a person to look?

And a phyical one too,no?
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I cycle therefore I am.

brynpoeth
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Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Dooring Cyclists

Postby brynpoeth » 14 Jul 2019, 5:45pm

blackbike wrote:..
Riding well away from parked cars is the best solution for dooring.

The government should revise and improve its cycling campaigns to make it very clear to cyclists and motorists that cycling in the middle of the lane is acceptable, legal and sensible.

More sense from blackbike, I was tempted to check his posts after he was mentioned in relation to b-+_&€t :wink:

One should always keep outwith the door zone, where this is not possible: dead slow!

We know well enough never to trust motorins, one can never see whether a small person might open a door suddenly or drive off suddenly
Last edited by brynpoeth on 18 Jul 2019, 5:01am, edited 1 time in total.
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