How to stop dooring

User avatar
NUKe
Posts: 4161
Joined: 23 Apr 2007, 11:07pm
Location: Suffolk

Re: How to stop dooring

Post by NUKe »

ian s wrote:If only all cyclists would stop cowering in the gutter and assert their place on the public highway such events would be much less frequent. However, in Bedford there are instances of marked cycle lanes passing marked car parking places which put the cyclist in exactly the wrong place, just where dooring will happen; I dare say such dangerous marking exist elsewhere. Then motorists expect the cyclist to use the marked cycle lanes, and get annoyed when they don't. This is the sort of reason why I don't want more typical British provision for cyclists

I an agree . my route home from work has an inadequate strip painted down the gutter then a wide pavement which the cars park on. As an experience cyclist I will not ride in the cycle lane if cars are parked on the pavement here, however these cycles lanes were put in for inexperienced cyclists who will not think to assert themselves into the carriage way when necessary. I have pointed out to our local council the facility is both useless and dangerous, the response of the county councillor in question was we've built them now. Although I did get the most dangerous bit, two car spaces had been painted on the road which threw the cyclist nearly out to the white, not too bad when occupied, but if you followed the cycle way when no cars were there you end up just veering rerouted in the end by talking to the planning department directly.
NUKe
_____________________________________
Pete Owens
Posts: 2445
Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: How to stop dooring

Post by Pete Owens »

meic wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:Simple method exists and could be taught and implemented

Use the inside hand to open the door, as you reach across the body, it automatically rotates the driver or passenger so that the rear of the car is in their vision


Oh not the "dutch reach" again.

Before anyone else posts this suggestion can they please borrow a friends car and try it: Arrange for it to be parallel parked in a line of cars and sit in the passenger seat. Ask your friend to stand on the pavement touching the second car behind (this is where a door-zone cyclist would be riding). Now reach over with your right hand, look behind and behold the magnificent view of the door pillar. Even if you press your face right against the window, you will be unable to see them.


The Dutch reach doesnt end with flinging the door open.

But that is exactly what advocates of the dutch reach really are pushing.

Read Cunobelin's post in full (and it is pretty much the same from some other advocate of this nonsense every time dooring comes up). Nothing about cracking the door open and peeking through, but just a "simple" method, which claims that by using the wrong hand to open the door you will "automatically" be able to see approaching cyclists. Having reached with the wrong hand and failed to see the approaching cyclist through the solid metal door pillar why would you not just throw open the door - Cunobelin et. al. have told you that by using your left hand you would have seen a cyclist if there was one.

Now when this suggestion first started doing the rounds a couple of years ago I thought that sounds like a good idea so I tried it out. And once you try it out you realise that it is complete rubbish. You simply cannot see anything behind you from inside the car through the side window. The view is entirely blocked by the door pillar. The only way to see approaching door zone cyclists is be looking in the wing mirror - and this should be adjusted to give the best view from the normal sitting position.

What I really have difficulty in comprehending is why cyclists persist in defending this even when it is pointed out how useless the technique is.
User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: How to stop dooring

Post by meic »

(and it is pretty much the same from some other advocate of this nonsense every time dooring comes up)

The first three hits when searching the Dutch reach on Google all show this.
"Look out, at mirror and easily back for bikes and traffic. All clear? Then open slowly, remaining vigilant.

Reach, Swivel, Look out & back, Open slowly

Admittedly all the videos cheat by having the car window open.

But your claim is clearly a misrepresentation of what is actually taught under the name of the Dutch reach.
https://www.dutchreach.org/
Yma o Hyd
User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: How to stop dooring

Post by meic »

Which reminds me

This screaming lie has not yet been removed from your site despite it having been pointed out.
I will try and remember to point it out on an annual basis. It is only 7 years now!

http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-th ... er2010.htm

The cycle track turns left there and always has, since before it was opened.
You can see the gap between the fence and the wall, if you look.
Also clearly visible if anybody clicks on the Location Map link and looks at the aerial photograph.
Yma o Hyd
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20336
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: How to stop dooring

Post by mjr »

meic wrote:But your claim is clearly a misrepresentation of what is actually taught under the name of the Dutch reach.
https://www.dutchreach.org/

Not really Pete's misrepresentation this, as I see no slow opening in Cunobelin's teaching, or most times I've seen it taught. Even on that website, the focus is on twisting and opening the door wrong-handed, not slow opening. It's called the Dutch reach, not the Dutch slow open, after all.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
ian s
Posts: 121
Joined: 24 Jun 2008, 12:59pm

Re: How to stop dooring

Post by ian s »

This business of the "Dutch reach" is partly due to car design. These days the internal door release is normally towards the leading edge of the door, whereas 20 and more years ago it was in the centre of the door. I have not tried in my current car but I suspect that I could not reach the drivers door release with my left hand because the steering wheel would get in the way
User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: How to stop dooring

Post by meic »

It's called the Dutch reach, not the Dutch slow open, after all.

Its called the Dutch reach in America and afterwards here. In the Netherlands it is just the way that you are taught to open the door safely and has no name.
Yma o Hyd
AlaninWales
Posts: 1626
Joined: 26 Oct 2012, 1:47pm

Re: How to stop dooring

Post by AlaninWales »

meic wrote:
It's called the Dutch reach, not the Dutch slow open, after all.

Its called the Dutch reach in America and afterwards here. In the Netherlands it is just the way that you are taught to open the door safely and has no name.

Yet looking in a properly adjusted mirror, opening the door slowly and checking again before throwing it open works at least as well (IMO better as this works in any vehicle and the mirror is not obstructed by the vehicle body).
So it is not the "Dutch" reach which makes any difference at all, rather the 'look and check'. Why not just promote the thing that actually makes a difference (for the attention of Mr Grayling)?
User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: How to stop dooring

Post by meic »

It is a memory or teaching aid rather like Mirror- signal- maneuver.
There are some idiots out there who will look at their mirror, then signal and then maneuver.
Without engaging in the observation, thinking and restraint that should have gone with it.

Same goes for the Dutch reach, you can use it as a teaching aid to get people into the habit of opening a door correctly but it cant stop people being robotic idiots who just go through the mechanical action of using the prescribed hands in the prescribed places with no comprehension of the fact they are supposed to be checking if the way is clear and showing restraint if it isnt.
Yma o Hyd
Post Reply