Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Pete Owens
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Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby Pete Owens » 14 Oct 2017, 5:06pm

Just saw this on cyclestreets:
https://www.cyclestreets.net/location/94533/
What on earth is going on?

LollyKat
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby LollyKat » 14 Oct 2017, 5:32pm

It's to encourage cyclists to cross the tramlines at a safe angle - the city's response to the fatality earlier this year.

From a council spokesman: "... we will carry out a road safety assessment of the area, considering all users and aspects of the junction and its approaches. This will include consultation with key stakeholders and any findings that could lead to safety improvements will be carefully considered."

So it's all sorted now. :roll:

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john4703
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby john4703 » 14 Oct 2017, 9:26pm

I'm old and tram lines were a constant factor in my riding. It is not difficult to learn how to cross them safely.
Don't let them win but keep up the struggle and wear them all down by our persistence.

rfryer
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby rfryer » 14 Oct 2017, 11:17pm

On otherwise empty roads, crossing tracks isn't a problem.

In busy traffic, it's much harder. If you abandon primary position in order to prepare to cross the tracks, chances are that another vehicle will sneak in and steal your road.

Any "facility" that relies on bikes serving across the normal traffic flow is a bit bonkers, in my opinion.

reohn2
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby reohn2 » 15 Oct 2017, 6:10pm

Pete Owens wrote:Just saw this on cyclestreets:
https://www.cyclestreets.net/location/94533/
What on earth is going on?

What do you suggest?
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ambodach
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby ambodach » 16 Oct 2017, 5:59pm

I'm with John 4703. I cycled in Glasgow and Clydebank in the days of trams and cobbles. Never came off as I soon learned to cross at right angles tho' not always easy at some junctions.

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Mick F
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby Mick F » 16 Oct 2017, 6:20pm

john4703 wrote:I'm old and tram lines were a constant factor in my riding. It is not difficult to learn how to cross them safely.
Yep.
Me too.

Back in the old days, I would be cycling to work in dockyards.
Rosyth, Portsmouth, Faslane, Devonport.
Crane tracks, railway lines, points, and all sorts of hazards to trap bicycle wheels.

Many people came unstuck, and once or twice me too, but you learn PDQ.
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby reohn2 » 16 Oct 2017, 7:36pm

As the previous two posters say once you've learned how to cross them tramlines are safe,but as motorists arent privy to such wisdom they need telling how the cyclist needs to approach said tramlines so some paint may enlighten them.
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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby SA_SA_SA » 16 Oct 2017, 9:43pm

But edinburgh ignored all the advice on layout from countries with popular cycling mixed with trams...
------------You may not use this post in Cycle or other magazine ------ 8)

LollyKat
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby LollyKat » 16 Oct 2017, 11:04pm

ambodach wrote:I'm with John 4703. I cycled in Glasgow and Clydebank in the days of trams and cobbles. Never came off as I soon learned to cross at right angles tho' not always easy at some junctions.


Trams were withdrawn from Glasgow in 1962. Old film footage from the 1950s show empty roads with only the occasional vehicle, and passengers hopping on and off from the tram stops in the middle of the road.

It is totally different these days - nose-to-tail traffic with fast, aggressive drivers who make it difficult to change lanes at the best of times, let alone with a tramline to negotiate. It takes room to cross at right angles but many drivers won't allow that room. Also, for those that don't want cyclists on the streets it is a easy way of scaring them off while appearing "blameless". :evil:

Pete Owens
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby Pete Owens » 17 Oct 2017, 12:39am

I think the big difference is that traditional trams used to run in the middle of the road - so the only place you would encounter the rails was at junctions where you would be crossing them rather than riding parallel. Trams I have seen on the continent also seem to be like that - often with boarding platforms in the middle of the road.

Modern light rail systems in the UK seem to put the tram lines at the side, with passengers getting on and off from the pavement. This means that the rails are running parallel and close to cyclists desire lines - sometimes you might want to ride to the left and sometimes to the right depending on rail position, road width, your destination etc. It is difficult to cross at right angles when the rails are parallel to your direction of travel - or you come across a set of points. I encountered some in Sheffield and they scared me witless - maybe I would get the hang of it if I was more used to them. I'm also not sure what happens if a tram approaches a cyclist in their path as it is not possible for it to move over to overtake.

thirdcrank
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby thirdcrank » 17 Oct 2017, 6:08am

I believe the last Leeds trams ran in 1959 but it was quite some time before the tracks were all removed, or more often, covered over. They did indeed run in the middle of the road; in the newer parts of the city they often ran in the central part of dual carriageways and a couple were completely off-road. It shows how light the other traffic used to be because passengers getting on and off walked from the pavement out to the tram. Women with prams - generally large, carriage-built affairs in those days - would walk down the off-side of the tram to stow them on the front platform next to the driver. One thing I've read about on the Leodis photo archive is the system to avoid a tram left-hooking traffic at a left turn: the conductor waited till it was clear behind then rang the bell to tell the driver it was ok to proceed and then stood on the rear platform holding out a warning flag to indicate the manoeuvre. In one of the Times reprints of archived articles, there was one dating from the 1920's when the Met Commissioner had instructed that any reports of drivers passing a tram when passengers were getting on or off would be submitted to NSY for his personal attention.

The stillborn Leeds Supertram system proposed stops in the middle of the road with light-controlled crossings to enable passengers to reach the pavement. I believe that in Sheffield, there are typically cobbled stretches to deter cyclists from impeding trams.

Let's remember here the tireless campaigner against trams, the late Colin Howe.

reohn2
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby reohn2 » 17 Oct 2017, 9:07am

Thread contributors will have to forgive me but I was responding to the OP and the linked photo as its all I have to go off so ask Pete Owens again.What do you propose?
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GPC
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby GPC » 17 Oct 2017, 10:01pm

reohn2 wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:Just saw this on cyclestreets:
https://www.cyclestreets.net/location/94533/
What on earth is going on?

What do you suggest?


Anything but this! I suggest building tracks to accommodate cycling in a 21st century city, which is EXACTLY what City of Edinburgh Council did not do. Cyclists were built our of the design process. To resolve this, well (until they move the tramlines) all you can do is cross the tracks at your own angle, where safe and when safe. Does that answer your query Pete?

MikeF
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Re: Edinburgh Tram Farcility

Postby MikeF » 17 Oct 2017, 10:31pm

Mick F wrote:
john4703 wrote:I'm old and tram lines were a constant factor in my riding. It is not difficult to learn how to cross them safely.
Yep.
Me too.

Back in the old days, I would be cycling to work in dockyards.
Rosyth, Portsmouth, Faslane, Devonport.
Crane tracks, railway lines, points, and all sorts of hazards to trap bicycle wheels.

Many people came unstuck, and once or twice me too, but you learn PDQ.
Only if you don't get run over first. :wink:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master