20mph Study – People who cycle regularly Online Survey

[squeaker]

Just been made aware of this survey being carried out for the DfT.

Atkins is conducting a survey on behalf of the Department for Transport about 20mph signed only limits, with people who cycle regularly. These limits do not have any physical traffic calming measures (e.g. road humps or chicanes), just 20mph signs to indicate the limit.

The main objectives of the research include:
· To evaluate the effectiveness of 20mph signed only speed limits (traffic speed, collisions, quality of life, community and health);
· To examine drivers’ and residents’ perceptions of 20mph signed only speed limits;
· To consider how 20mph signed only speed limit schemes where implemented and what makes them effective; and
· To assess the impact on specific groups such as children, cyclists, the elderly.
This research will inform future decisions on 20mph speed limits and road safety policy.

We would be very grateful if you could take a few minutes to answer questions about the 20mph limits, as someone who cycles regularly.

Be careful how you answer the questions on Whether you'd use or divert to 20mph roads and Physical traffic calming

[John Holiday]

Have completed survey but pointed out that 20mph is only any use if enforced, which generally it isn't.

[gaz]

It's certainly not generally observed: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... itain-2016

In 2016: ... 81% of cars exceeded the speed limit on 20mph roads

[pwa]

It's certainly not generally observed: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... itain-2016

In 2016: ... 81% of cars exceeded the speed limit on 20mph roads

I got caught exceeding the 20mph limit (hands up, no excuses) by 4mph during an absent minded moment. I was not ignoring the limit, but I'd taken my attention away from the speedo. Even so, I was going slower than if the limit had been 30mph, so even with me, in one of my less attentive moments, the lower limit was having an effect. If a 20mph limit results in drivers dropping their speed to something just a little over 20mph that must be considerably better than nothing. And drivers trying to keep their speed down will often impede those who want to go faster.

[andrew_s]

In the 20 mph limits round here, most drivers seem to keep down to 25 or so, even with clear road in front.
I will confess to treating 20 as a target when I'm on my bike

[Bonefishblues]

I got caught exceeding the 20mph limit (hands up, no excuses) by 4mph during an absent minded moment. I was not ignoring the limit, but I'd taken my attention away from the speedo. Even so, I was going slower than if the limit had been 30mph, so even with me, in one of my less attentive moments, the lower limit was having an effect. If a 20mph limit results in drivers dropping their speed to something just a little over 20mph that must be considerably better than nothing. And drivers trying to keep their speed down will often impede those who want to go faster.

I think that's a very good observation, supported by the stats.

[Heltor Chasca]

Repetition alert: The main road that cuts through our village has become a 20mph zone. The speeds have dropped down to 40mph. Some think that’s progress, but as said upththread, it is of no use as there is no enforcement.

And meanwhile the powers that be are inventing a new ‘littering from a car’ law. What’s the point? Remember the smoking in a work vehicle? Or smoking with kids in the car? Exactly.

[pwa]

Repetition alert: The main road that cuts through our village has become a 20mph zone. The speeds have dropped down to 40mph. Some think that’s progress, but as said upththread, it is of no use as there is no enforcement.

And meanwhile the powers that be are inventing a new ‘littering from a car’ law. What’s the point? Remember the smoking in a work vehicle? Or smoking with kids in the car? Exactly.

I can't think of any 20mph roads around here on which people regularly do 40mph, so I think you definitely have a problem that needs some attention there. Is your 20mph a red ring mandatory thing or a black ring advisory?

[Vorpal]

20 mph limits may not be enforced, but they do tend to reduce overall speeds. This was demonstrated when area wide limits were introduced in several places a few years ago.

https://crossriverpartnership.org/media ... Issue1.pdf

One of the interesting things found in London, is that although the average speed only went down by 1 or 2 mph, one the groups that saw the biggest reductions was in numbers of motorists going 30 - 35 mph.

DfT were supposed to publish a comprehensive evaluation of the 'after' on 20 mph implementation in London, Brighton and other places. That was supposed to be completed in 2017. I havne't seen anything about it, but maybe this survey is part of it.

[Heltor Chasca]

Repetition alert: The main road that cuts through our village has become a 20mph zone. The speeds have dropped down to 40mph. Some think that’s progress, but as said upththread, it is of no use as there is no enforcement.

And meanwhile the powers that be are inventing a new ‘littering from a car’ law. What’s the point? Remember the smoking in a work vehicle? Or smoking with kids in the car? Exactly.

I can't think of any 20mph roads around here on which people regularly do 40mph, so I think you definitely have a problem that needs some attention there. Is your 20mph a red ring mandatory thing or a black ring advisory?

Yes. A problem indeed. Mandatory red ring, but part the way through the village there are still the white, painted 30 mph markings. Half cocked job as usual. Most locals appear to drive through at 25-30mph but as it’s a cut through to Bath and Bristol, those hooning it along at 40mph probably live elsewhere. I guess there in a feeling of non-accountability.

[Vorpal]

Unfortunately, 20 mph speed limits without traffic calming have little impact on the tops speeds, or the top 3% of speeders. In an area where there is a problem of excessive speed, 20 mph speed limits are likely to have little impact, without further measures.

IMO, through roads like that should have average speed camera enforcement.

[Stevek76]

Regardless of whether they're enforced or even slow everyone down, they do seem to have a positive affect on perceived safety amongst casual cyclists and might be cyclists. That is a good thing imo.

I'd be cautious about to many responses saying they're a waste of time due to no enforcement as that's probably what the government want Atkins to come back and tell them so they can not bother with them anymore.

[Bmblbzzz]

Almost all roads in central Bristol have been 20mph for a couple of years. Has it made a difference? Yes. People very rarely do 20, but equally rarely do 40; the "acceptable stretch" has fallen to around 30 rather than 40. In other words, same as ever: limit+10.

[Stevek76]

Indeed, though I suspect in some areas speed drops are in part, or even primarily a result of increasing parking effectively working as engineering measures.

Mass expansion of residents parking schemes accompanied the 20mph limit and between the reduction in parking space in those zones, ever increasing car ownership and residents in scheme areas not wanting to fork out the £££s for their barely used third car (often a hippie van, land rover or other large vehicle ) so parking it outside has meant there's a far higher level of parking on the wider roads further out where the worst excesses of 30mph were seen.

[Bmblbzzz]

Yes, certainly good point about parking generally and the RPZs. Though there certainly wasn't a reduction in parking when they introduced RPZ, more like an increase, with parking bays marked in some places that had previously been double yellows. This reduces speeds by, well, blocking the road!