Why Isn't More Made of the Ever Increasing Width of Motor Vehicles?

[simonhill]

As cyclists we are all aware of our ever decreasing road space. What surprises me is that I very rarely hear people say that this is mainly caused by the increasing width of motor vehicles.

For example Ford's small family car of 2017, the Fiesta is nearly 21 inches wider than the 1960's Anglia. The current Mondeo is 18.5 inches wider than the 1960's MK1 Cortina. (NB: Both of the current models include their wing mirrors out, but even without them they are still much wider.)

Campaigns like the widely publicised Too Close for Comfort/Give Space extol motorists to give more room when overtaking for safety reasons. In my experience, this leaves many the motorist wondering why they now need to change their habits. When I point out to my friends that over the years motor vehicles have steadily increased in size, often quoting the above figures, they start to see the rationale. The fact that a Fiesta is nearly 2 foot wider than an Anglia normally comes as quite a shock.

I then point out that many urban roads have parking on both sides which means that they often accommodates 4 car widths. Simple maths shows (less a wing mirror or two for the parked ones) that on these roads there is now about 6 feet less road for cyclists and other users.

Ironically motorists are also suffering with the growth in vehicle size with many side roads where I live now effectively one way once a car is parked in them. Again, I never hear car width being mentioned when talking about the ever worsening congestion on our roads.

So why isn't more made of the inexorable growth in the width of motor vehicles?

[millimole]

. . . . .

Motorists themselves suffer with this obesity in the way that width increases, but parking spaces never do. This makes getting in and out of a car in a crowded car park increasingly difficult.

[Bonefishblues]

I agree, it's very noticeable when one looks at generations of the same vehicle (the Porsche 911 is a good search, amongst many).

It's driven by a whole variety of factors, not least safety. One's chances of surviving a collision with a crisp packet in an Anglia weren't good.

[The utility cyclist]

Not just width but length and weight.
The width and weight is due to the massively increased 'safety' features, wider seats for the increasing human girth and all the extra gadgets crammed in (electric windows/airbags, power steering etc).
Both these are due to not modifying driver behaviour and allowing ever more powerful vehicles and from building infra for the motor vehicle so people get fatter as a whole.
Anglia 730kg/1422mm
Mk2 ford escort 1.3L('79) 786kg /1595mm
MkII '89 VX astra 850kg/1663mm
'01 Passat B5.5 est. 1400kg/1740mm

The big jump in weight being addition of power steering, leccy windows, crash protection beams.
However I've never had problems overtaking people on bikes even on narrow roads (because I wait). Yes there is less space but ultimately it's mostly down to mentality with respect to safety.

I never felt unsafe or unable to control adequately my mk2 escort/Astra, nor indeed uncomfortable over distance or unable to make adequate progress to wherever.
So IMHO the changes in tech and 'safety' adornments are down to people bowing to unsafe drivers and trying to fix a problem by the completely wrong methods whilst allowing ever more powerful powerful vehicles and less restrictions/control on motorists and has not solved the problem but has diminished by force massively many other safe activities.

[tatanab]

The extra width comes from an international market that needs to accommodate some nationalities that are more lardy. There has to be space for curtain airbags to operate and the doors need to house electric windows. All adds weight and space but increases motorists comfort, safety and convenience. What could possibly be wrong with that? Different generations, different expectations. Where we put 2 adults and 3 kids in an Austin A35 it seems that these days a single child means a huge van like vehicle is required due to the amount of "stuff" a modern child needs.

Every new car model seems to be advertised as "it is longer, wider. It is bigger and BETTER". When was an advantage claimed for it being smaller?

[Cyril Haearn]

I have read several times of how parking places are getting too narrow %+)
Surely electric window winders can be compact, can one buy a new vehicle without them now?
I remember reading about a new Golf, it was quite a few years ago: *this is the last time a new golf will be heavier than the old one*
Not sure whether that statement was fulfilled

[Mick F]

Roads round here are getting narrower, there is no doubt, just in the same way as parking places are getting narrower.

Mrs Mick F and me were talking about this only last week on our way towards Callington. We've lived here over 30years, and I've cycled and driven here all this time. I know the roads like the back of my hands, but the feeling is that they are getting narrower. Not true of course, but it's the cars that are getting chunkier, let alone the bigger vans and lorries.

We bought a new settee a year or so ago, and had been to furniture shops to see what we wanted. There seemed to be a plofileration of three-seaters but with only two cushions. I asked one salesman, and he said it's because bums are getting bigger. That's why armchairs are bigger. I sat in one, and I nearly drowned in it.

Furniture, beds, fast food, restaurant portions, supermarkets, lorries, vans, cars, televisions, bums ......................... all getting bigger.

[pwa]

To a degree the widening of cars must be self-limiting. I'd be put off a wide car by the thought of the extra difficulty of parking at the supermarket, or of passing other vehicles on narrow lanes. Having a particularly wide vehicle is not entirely cost free for the user.

[Cyril Haearn]

Another question: when should the *improvement* of vehicles have stopped?
My ordinary vehicle is 21 years old and has power steering and electric windows, both unnecessary, both use energy and can go wrong

Which vehicles available new are narrower, is there a list?

[MikeF]

Some months ago I saw a Messerschmitt like this one being driven along a two lane one way street. The most noticeable thing was how little road space it needed.

Perhaps charging according to vehicle size might be used as a form of road space charging??

[Bonefishblues]

To a degree the widening of cars must be self-limiting. I'd be put off a wide car by the thought of the extra difficulty of parking at the supermarket, or of passing other vehicles on narrow lanes. Having a particularly wide vehicle is not entirely cost free for the user.

You say that but I see a lady in a new Volvo XC90 most mornings who has no Idea how to dock it, but who seems very happy with her purchase

[Stradageek]

The general rule is that the size of the car purchased is directly proportional to the magnitude of the inferiority complex of the driver; the lower your self esteem the bigger and flashier car you tend to buy.

Or, in a world of burgeoning inequality, one way of staving off the realisation that you are part of the poor 99% and that there is nothing you can do about it is to buy a big car to try and give the impression that you are someone you're not.

Automobile marketing executives have just looked at what works in the US and imported it to the UK

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkkdkk, skip to 13:15

I think what irritates me most is that engine technology can give us cars capable of 100mpg but the manufacturers know that these won't sell because the car will be light, noisy and slow. So all that engine technology is wasted to give us 40mpg in a two tonne truck that destroys both roads and precious oil reserves, because that is what does sell.

[Psamathe]

To a degree the widening of cars must be self-limiting. I'd be put off a wide car by the thought of the extra difficulty of parking at the supermarket, or of passing other vehicles on narrow lanes. Having a particularly wide vehicle is not entirely cost free for the user.

Passing other vehicles is a big aspect around where I live. Quite a few roads are just two way roads for sensible cars - you slow down but don't end-up driving onto the verge. But so many people seem to chose these wider cars which I'm continually reflecting on how daft it is. You live in an area with loads of single track or "marginal" two way roads why go and buy a car that is a pain to drive around! People putting status above convenience and common sense.

Ian

[old_windbag]

You live in an area with loads of single track or "marginal" two way roads why go and buy a car that is a pain to drive around! People putting status above convenience and common sense.

I have many encounters while cycling but more often when walking country "C-roads". Two typical cars, normally jukes or cactus/mokka/kajaro? coming face to face as I walk along the verge......... needless to say they always glower at me as if I'm the cause of their stoppage. Size matters to the general public and many cars are big on the outside and small on the inside due to as mentioned safety measures etc.

I saw a Messerschmitt

I think there are many brilliant ideas for small vehicles to accommodate 1-2 and either side by side or 1 behind the other. We see concept vehicles, that are very small yet "large" inside and very environmentally friendly....... but they never seem to progress to production. Either due to being tiny start-ups or bigger companies without the will to test them out on the public as a big flop could impact them in other ways. Our streets would be tidier, also people should use drives and garages for their vehicles where provided so as to free up the streets of vehicles. I also think vehicles as below are good as they can be ridden on just a car licence( no CBT etc ). A covered version isn't beyond ford or gm's capabilities.

http://www.uk.piaggio.com/piaggio/UK/en/news/MP3.html#main

I'm all for small cars, lightweight, high mpg or recharge distance. Many car enthusiasts are too but joe public is driven more by status and what the advertising tells them they need.

[squeaker]

Surely electric window winders can be compact, can one buy a new vehicle without them now?

Yes: Dacia Sandero Access is one, although I suspect trying to find one to buy would be challenging... (Note: this is not a recommendation to buy )