Stevek76 wrote:This actually seems to be an improvement to me? Depends on final widths which are a bit unclear on the low res plan but a two way fully segregated track seems preferable to the current two one way tracks,
Purely from the map, it might be better better for those cyclists going between Abbey Bridge and Gregory St. However for those going straight on westwards from Abbey Bridge to Abbey Road, it would mean either crossing over the road twice in about half a mile to access then leave the two-way path on the other side or disregarding the facility altogether and braving the wrath of motorists who believe we should always use 'facilities' however useless.
mjr wrote:It's not inevitable that a cycleway loses priority when crossing a carriageway - we've a growing number around Norfolk where cycling and walking take priority - but I bet those residents wouldn't like that either!
Interesting. Have you got any photos or links to eg google streetview, cos I'm finding it hard to envisage what this would like like? I know a few where on-pavement paths maintain priority over side streets (and it actually works in practice, though they are very quiet streets), but to do so when crossing from side to side of a main road is something else.
Bmblbzzz wrote:Interesting. Have you got any photos or links to eg google streetview, cos I'm finding it hard to envisage what this would like like? I know a few where on-pavement paths maintain priority over side streets (and it actually works in practice, though they are very quiet streets), but to do so when crossing from side to side of a main road is something else.
Yes, good point, main roads are different: so far, the ones I've used have gone for traffic lights when crossing A roads, which is a mixed blessing: better than give ways only if the road is busy and timings are fair.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Bmblbzzz wrote:Interesting. Have you got any photos or links to eg google streetview, cos I'm finding it hard to envisage what this would like like? I know a few where on-pavement paths maintain priority over side streets (and it actually works in practice, though they are very quiet streets), but to do so when crossing from side to side of a main road is something else.
Yes, good point, main roads are different: so far, the ones I've used have gone for traffic lights when crossing A roads, which is a mixed blessing: better than give ways only if the road is busy and timings are fair.
By main roads I didn't necessarily mean A roads. I was thinking of instances when a cyclepath crosses from one side to the other of a carriageway. That's not the same as crossing a side road. Obviously a carriageway can be crossed by traffic lights or zebra, but those both involve loss of priority.
Zebras effectively retain priority (well, precedence), don't they? The one I know best crossing between sides is a zebra.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Stevek76 wrote:This actually seems to be an improvement to me? Depends on final widths which are a bit unclear on the low res plan but a two way fully segregated track seems preferable to the current two one way tracks,
Purely from the map, it might be better better for those cyclists going between Abbey Bridge and Gregory St. However for those going straight on westwards from Abbey Bridge to Abbey Road, it would mean either crossing over the road twice in about half a mile to access then leave the two-way path on the other side or disregarding the facility altogether and braving the wrath of motorists who believe we should always use 'facilities' however useless.
Yes that is far from ideal, looking up and down streetview along suggests the current layout is a very disjointed affair for much of the route. Sadly like most such schemes the 'guidelines' to which it was designed go out of the window at first hit of space running out because private motor traffic is king.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
mjr wrote:Zebras effectively retain priority (well, precedence), don't they? The one I know best crossing between sides is a zebra.
More so than light-controlled crossings, yes. But you still have to wait for the traffic for stop for you; often/usually people will stop when they see you waiting but not always and of course they're not legally obliged to until you're on the zebra itself (technically of course you're not supposed to ride across but I don't think anyone minds). In junction terms, it's more like a mini-roundabout than being on a main road. However, I can't think of a better way to cross the carriageway (in town) without a bridge or underpass.
mjr wrote:Zebras effectively retain priority (well, precedence), don't they? The one I know best crossing between sides is a zebra.
More so than light-controlled crossings, yes. But you still have to wait for the traffic for stop for you; often/usually people will stop when they see you waiting but not always and of course they're not legally obliged to until you're on the zebra itself (technically of course you're not supposed to ride across but I don't think anyone minds). In junction terms, it's more like a mini-roundabout than being on a main road. However, I can't think of a better way to cross the carriageway (in town) without a bridge or underpass.
I think TSRGD 2016 tweaked the law on this, enabling cycling across parallel to a zebra and maybe other aspects.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
mjr wrote:Zebras effectively retain priority (well, precedence), don't they? The one I know best crossing between sides is a zebra.
More so than light-controlled crossings, yes. But you still have to wait for the traffic for stop for you; often/usually people will stop when they see you waiting but not always and of course they're not legally obliged to until you're on the zebra itself (technically of course you're not supposed to ride across but I don't think anyone minds). In junction terms, it's more like a mini-roundabout than being on a main road. However, I can't think of a better way to cross the carriageway (in town) without a bridge or underpass.
At zebras: none of them stop AND apply the handbrake AND wait till one is right over
There is a crossing near me were PoFs have priority but PoBs do not, lots of motons pause there and even try to wave PoBs across, forbye there is a second lane that one can not observe I wait until there are no motons, if a stupid **** tries to wave me across I give them the verbals, loud
Generally when walking in town I use a push-button crossing if possible (don't trust the motons there either) or just wait till there is a gap. That might often not be possible in London
Last edited by Cyril Haearn on 5 Jan 2018, 9:23pm, edited 1 time in total.
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Bmblbzzz wrote:I think there have to be special markings, technically speaking. But in practice riding over zebras (no, Mr Attenborough!) seems universally accepted.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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