Road pricing

[mattsccm]

How about some form of tax according to car value? That will hit the big gas guzzlers so 2 birds with one stone. Or something based on bhp?
My objection to use based tax is that as with most things it penalises the rural driver. For me its 10 miles to a super market and up to 25 each way to work.
Ultimately we need to stop building roads and force commercial use back to the railways. Big taxes on mail order etc would inhibit sales thus removing delivery vehicles. Inhibit air transport would help. Huge holiday taxes etc.
Let's be honest. We are screwed. No one is going to give up their own favourite for others.

[kwackers]

Seems fair enough. Bearing in mind drivers currently shell out £140 in a lump sum once a year then paying an extra 10% or so on fuel over the whole year shouldn't be an issue. If more expensive fuel discourages some journeys then that is a win. Likewise if higher fuel prices encourage smaller and/or more efficient cars that is another win.

However if abolishing VED isn't an option plan B will be putting the same £140 VED on electric cars. There is nothing that means they are going to be subsidised forever.

Remember when petrol first hit £1 a litre? For a short while you couldn't give a 4x4 away. That didn't last long, folk simply got used to it and now they sell just as many 4x4's if not more than ever.

My main problem with putting it on petrol is I don't think it discourages vehicle use. If it did the folk I see driving 400 meters to pick up a pint of milk from the local shop wouldn't do it now but they do.

The problem with fuel cost is most folk use their cars for whatever they use their cars for and the cost of running the car is accepted. Folk simply justify what they use it for and claim they "can't do without it". If it costs £100 a month for petrol then it costs £100, if next year it costs £200 then it costs £200.
Folk at work whine about the price of petrol but some of the biggest whingers live within a mile and most live within 3 miles (and we have a 'Citybike' network that covers the area they live in!) yet they'll still drive in and even pay for the ability to park and having had water cooler discussions with them they're simply not going to change any time soon.
To make people take notice you'd have to really push up the price of petrol and any government that did that may as well put a gun to their own head.

I suspect the only real benefit to increasing the cost of petrol would be a reduction in general consumerism but as always the wealthy won't care, the poor will be hard hit and the middle classes will complain and take out their anger at the ballot box.

[thirdcrank]

... it penalises the rural driver. For me its 10 miles to a super market and up to 25 each way to work. ...

I know nothing about your personal circumstances, but the principle behind using taxation to influence behaviour is a mixture of penalising some and rewarding - or at least not penalising quite so much - others. Piling tax onto fuel - eg the annual escalator which was dropped PDQ - is a way of discouraging people from arranging things so they commute big distances.

Remember when petrol first hit £1 a litre?

I remember when it was predicted to reach £1 a gallon. (And my monthly pay was about 1/10th of my current old age pension.)

[Wanlock Dod]

...it penalises the rural driver...

I'm not sure that's true, as presumably the charge would be congestion related and rural drivers will do more of their journeys on uncongested roads, and possibly minor roads which would perhaps not be charged, or only charged at a low rate. Costly journeys will be the likes of trips to city centres at busy times and a lap of the M25 at rush hour.
As an aside, presumably the infrastructure required to automate the billing process would also be able to automatically enforce the speed limits, and dish out the appropriate fines along side the congestion charges.

[Nigel]

My objection to use based tax is that as with most things it penalises the rural driver. For me its 10 miles to a super market and up to 25 each way to work.

Most road pricing models have different rates on different roads. Typically very high charge per mile in city centres at peak times, moderate charges on arterial commuter routes and motorways, and low charges on rural roads. But, there has to be a bit of thought about it, otherwise the back-road near a big town becomes jammed solid with folk trying to avoid a modest dual carriageway charge.

So, if anything, as a rural user road pricing could be financially better. But, depends on your commute, if its 20 miles of rural roads, then 5 miles into a big town, you'll pay the same as the urban users for those last 5 miles, plus your small charge for the 20 on rural roads.


- Nigel (in a rural location).

[ianrobo]

West Mids Mayor Street (a Tory you should note) is now wanting this for birmingham though it is the city council's responsibility. However the mood is clear, Nottingham has a car parking tax, Burnham looking at it for Manchester. Especially in City centres we should remeber the minority drive, the rest come in by Bus, Train and of course bike/walk.

[chris_suffolk]

I'm not sure that's true, as presumably the charge would be congestion related and rural drivers will do more of their journeys on uncongested roads, and possibly minor roads which would perhaps not be charged, or only charged at a low rate.

The infrastructure in camera's to cover the whole of the road network, presumably at every junction, else you can't track a route, would be impossible to provide.

Insisting all cars have a tracking device, whilst maybe possible for new cars, would be impossible to implement on existing cars. Retrospectively insisting they are fitted - how would that work. And if a GPS tracker is used, then people will just cover the receiver or remove it so it can't be tracked.

[rickd]

Yes Nottingham has a workplace parking tax which companies have to pay for each space they provide employees. Between £300 and £400 per space. It is up to the company how much and how they pass onto emplyees. My employer charges 0.75% of salary to park in thier car park which covers about 50% of the cost to the company. A lot of people who don't pay still drive in but find other places nearby to park for free.

[mattsccm]

The above mentioned rural plus a bit of urban is the classic rural commute. Cities are where the work is.
I feel that we should hammer commercial transport to get it back on the railways etc and as a by product we could reduce our rampant consumerism. The railway infrastructure is there. Of course some dimwit would insist on modern standards when the old ones worked just fine.

[Vorpal]

I think that they should tax people according to how large/heavy the vehicle is and how far it is driven. They should also tax petrol, diesel, and other petroleum based fuels and their substitutes. So, people who drive petrol and diesel vehicles are taxed more heavily than thos who drive electric vehicles.

Pedal cycles, though should be subsidised by the government

[Cyril Haearn]

I think that they should tax people according to how large/heavy the vehicle is and how far it is driven. They should also tax petrol, diesel, and other petroleum based fuels and their substitutes. So, people who drive petrol and diesel vehicles are taxed more heavily than thos who drive electric vehicles.

Pedal cycles, though should be subsidised by the government

I spent €2,49 on cycling last year, did 2000+ km. Isn't that cheap enough?

[Vorpal]

I think that they should tax people according to how large/heavy the vehicle is and how far it is driven. They should also tax petrol, diesel, and other petroleum based fuels and their substitutes. So, people who drive petrol and diesel vehicles are taxed more heavily than thos who drive electric vehicles.

Pedal cycles, though should be subsidised by the government

I spent €2,49 on cycling last year, did 2000+ km. Isn't that cheap enough?

If people were paid to do it, I bet congestion would get better very quickly The billions spent on road building would go a long way, if doled out as subsidies for cycling.

[reohn2]

I think that they should tax people according to how large/heavy the vehicle is and how far it is driven. They should also tax petrol, diesel, and other petroleum based fuels and their substitutes. So, people who drive petrol and diesel vehicles are taxed more heavily than thos who drive electric vehicles.

Pedal cycles, though should be subsidised by the government

I spent €2,49 on cycling last year, did 2000+ km. Isn't that cheap enough?

If people were paid to do it, I bet congestion would get better very quickly The billions spent on road building would go a long way, if doled out as subsidies for cycling.

It can be sorted but the wrong people are running the show,politrickians are only doing what their masters will allow,when the whole basis of a government is four year plan to get voted into power again no long term plans are possible.The system is broken.

EDIT:-I watched Questiontime last night,someone in the audience asked why there wasn't cross party agreement on NHS funding,the answers from the poltrickians was bland and for the most part meaningless,it's the same with transport.