Satnavs 'cause accidents'?

[661-Pete]

I paid particular attention to this item which came up on the BBC SE News last night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england ... black-spot
In particular

Some residents believe drivers following their sat navs may be getting confused at the junction.

Although the report says that, thankfully, no-one has yet been KSI'd at that junction, I can't help feeling: what if one of the erring motorists had struck a cyclist or other vulnerable road user?

My personal opinion is, I don't like satnavs, I think they're more trouble than they're worth, and when I was a kid I was taught at school how to read a map. I wouldn't have one in my car - nor on my bike. Although I suppose in the latter case it might save me from losing my way - on the very few occasions it's happened....

What's to be done? This sort of thing could happen elsewhere in the country. Will the inclusion of Satnav knowhow in the new Driving Test, be of help?

[AlaninWales]

That's not drivers following satnavs, that's drivers ignoring perfectly clear give-way markings in good daylight. Whether they were doing so because an electronic map tells them the road goes straight on, or because a paper map tells them the same, is irrelevant.

At least with a satnav, I no longer feel the need to have a paper map open in the car. Satnavs, like paper maps can be consulted when stationary. I really do not understand why "I learned to read a map" (so did I) has any bearing. Most satnavs for driving display a map (personally I like to keep it north-up so that I know which direction is where; this is most helpful when coming across road closures that the satnav hasn't picked up yet).

[Psamathe]

That's not drivers following satnavs, that's drivers ignoring perfectly clear give-way markings in good daylight. Whether they were doing so because an electronic map tells them the road goes straight on, or because a paper map tells them the same, is irrelevant. .....

I don't know if it was just some areas (it was in mine) but in the days I took my driving test it was common practice that the tester would instruct you to e.g. "take the next left" when the next left was a No Entry road and the test was for you to take the "next left" that you were able to. The particular request was relatively well known about but it did illustrate the point to the learner that there are road signs that you must obey whatever the person sitting next to you is telling you to do (these days incl. SatNavs). And when I took my test I was told "Take the next left" when the next left was a No Entry so I duly took the left following.

Ian

[Cyril Haearn]

It is illegal to use a satnav while driving
But is possible I think

[rmurphy195]

No they don't. Inattentive driving is one cause of accidents, and people using atnav are often not paying attention ("Driving while dostracted" is now an offence).

I used to commute to work - 30 miles each way, mostly motorway. And you could tell the satnav users as these became popular, as the drivers slowed down in the middle lane to check where they were going. Very hairy. Just as bad as mobile phone use.

[SA_SA_SA]

Surely sat-navs should be required to blank the screen when the car is moving to avoid tempting the driver? ie heard but not seen. To look at its map would require stopping.

[[XAP]Bob]

It is illegal to use a satnav while driving
But is possible I think

It's not illegal - it's illegal to fiddle with them, maybe.

I find SatNav a great use on longer journeys. I use google maps on my phone, and there are a number of advantages:
- Excellent ETA
- Routing around traffic situations
- Advanced warning of junctions and the like
(The top left of the screen says the distance to the next junction, so I know how long I have to manoeuvre into the appropriate lane)
- Lane descriptors
Approaching an unknown junction it will tell me which lanes are appropriate long before the road markings do
- Road ahead view
Driving along I can see that there is a corner coming up, or a straight after this corner, so I don't need to overtake the cyclists now...
- Confidence
I don't have to pull over and check that I *think* I'm on the right road - I know I am, all the time.

[mjr]

It is illegal to use a satnav while driving
But is possible I think

Illegal to fiddle with it, rather than use it, I think? I have mine set to voice prompts only and it's just extra information. You don't have to follow it and if you follow it somewhere silly, it's your own damn fault. That's the problem in the OP - it seems almost ingrained in society that it's never the motorists' fault.

[pwa]

It is illegal to use a satnav while driving
But is possible I think

Illegal to fiddle with it, rather than use it, I think? I have mine set to voice prompts only and it's just extra information. You don't have to follow it and if you follow it somewhere silly, it's your own damn fault. That's the problem in the OP - it seems almost ingrained in society that it's never the motorists' fault.

I find the voice prompts misleading, so I rely mostly on a quick glance at the map. But you do have to beware of being sent the wrong way up a one way street and other glitches. Use of the brain is still required.

[thirdcrank]

A map - unless it's recent and very large scale - may be unhelpful at a complicated junction and I'm not sure what's the answer.

I live about a mile from the fairly recently remodelled Junction 27 on the M62. It was terrible before: there used to be a J27 website and one of the wags knocking it suggested that the layout was accidentally settled when a cleaner put some wet cups on the plans leaving a couple of ring marks.

It's been changed with the addition of a road through the middle of one of the roundabouts and computer-controlled traffic lights and the combination of drivers using the straight-ahead only lane expecting to be able to turn right, with locals trying to beat the lights by going round the roundabout to go straight ahead is eye-opening and none of it's improved by there being more signs than the brain can process.

If I'm driving somewhere unfamiliar I like to use streetview to get a mental picture of significant junctions, including teeny-weenie turn-offs and the appearance of the destination - often a pub - and it can really give the feeling of going somewhere familiar, but that's only a practical option for somebody with time on their hands, although the google maps app does make find the streetview very easy.

[661-Pete]

I really do not understand why "I learned to read a map" (so did I) has any bearing.

My point being, you can't read a map while driving and in motion - at least not unless you're incredibly stupid and reckless. So, if you're driving and haven't got a passenger, consulting the map means a stop, somewhere safe to do so.

But - whatever the law says - a satnav is designed to be viewed by a driver while in motion. This means there's risk of a driver paying more attention to it than to important road signs - like the STOP signs in the above video.

Maybe the new Driving Test addresses these concerns?

[Bez]

I can't help feeling: what if one of the erring motorists had struck a cyclist or other vulnerable road user?

No "what if" needed:

https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/satnav-d ... sts-deaths

For what it's worth, I would suggest that the emotive semantic arguments around "causes" of death are best avoided by thinking of devices like satnavs not as causes but as catalysts. They serve to turn a range of human failings (from casual inattention to wilful irresponsibility) into behaviours with a significantly greater chance of resulting in serious harm.

I think one of the issues is the brushing-over of HCI related issues: there is almost certainly not enough consideration of distraction mechanisms (eg the displays are often a long way from where the driver's attention needs to be, and they remain interactive while the vehicle is moving) and certainly not enough regulation of them. It's perfectly possible to have a navigation system which is not significantly distracting, but there is nothing in place to ensure this. The technology is driven entirely by the market, which inevitably competes on functionality for the customer rather than safety for others.

[Pastychomper]

Another problem is such devices being placed where they obstruct the driver's view. I had a close call once when CBDR held a car behind my rear-view mirror for several seconds, so I dread to imagine the effects of a second blind spot. (Yes, my head moves a lot more when driving since then, and yes it should have before.) I wonder sometimes why some satnavs come with suckers - the one time I used one there was no surface in the car that was smooth, accessible and safe enough for it to hang from. the device was handy for its advertised purpose, though.

[kwackers]

I find the voice prompts misleading, so I rely mostly on a quick glance at the map. But you do have to beware of being sent the wrong way up a one way street and other glitches. Use of the brain is still required.

I rely on the voice prompts. I normally use navigation on my phone which I then 'turn off' and throw on the dash.
It continues giving instructions; "turn left in 400 yards onto Lord St" etc which I find a great help.
I still do the actual driving, looking at road signs etc etc and I honestly can't remember the last time it gave me duff information.

I miss the visual representation of roundabouts with that technique, a quick glance tells you everything you need to know.

[661-Pete]

Incidentally, part of my disdain for satnavs has nothing to do with the inherent dangers. It stems from an experience when, some years ago, I was (as a passenger) guiding a colleague (driving) through the streets of Glasgow, a city neither of us were familiar with. At first, relying on the satnav app on his smartphone. We got hopelessly lost - partly due to being constantly diverted by roadworks. In the end I threw down the phone in disgust, and asked "Is there a map of any sort in the car?". On getting the answer "no" (it was a hire car) I said "OK - let's just follow road signs instead".....

We got to our destination eventually - more than an hour late for the meeting we were supposed to be attending...