"A taste of freedom". Really?

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horizon
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"A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby horizon » 26 Jan 2018, 10:48am

Well here's some insight into what we are up against:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... mpowerment

The "taste of freedom" come later in the article. I think the sight of children stuffed up in cars unable to play safely or indeed ever cycle on the road as youngsters says more about the effect on freedom than not being able to drive.
Bikes belong on trains: two spaces per carriage would meet most needs.

brynpoeth
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby brynpoeth » 26 Jan 2018, 10:56am

So: fewer young people are learning to drive, +1!
Maybe some will learn later, maybe some will never learn, +2!
I have seen the future and it works - London!
Alternative facts welcome
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Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 26 Jan 2018, 10:57am

Hi,
Driving is not a necessity for the modern person, unless your job depends on it (delivery driver / builder etc,) I can see both sides.

I like driving so I am biased, a lot of drivers wish they did not have too.
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reohn2
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jan 2018, 11:18am

Horizon
Did you read the comments?
The article is a glimpse backward to another time,things are changing,very,very slowly but there are signs.If the government can see and invest in a different future travel policy the pace of change may quicken......
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brynpoeth
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby brynpoeth » 26 Jan 2018, 11:21am

Clickbait? We can maybe be glad that a lot of opinion-forming goes on in London
Alternative facts welcome
......
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

reohn2
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jan 2018, 11:31am

brynpoeth wrote:Clickbait? We can maybe be glad that a lot of opinion-forming goes on in London

Yep that that'll be about right.
The article is published at a time when car sales are falling so it's really an advertisement to go out and learn drive,as the open road beckons.
The thing is though reading the comments it appears to have backfired(sorry)on whoever funded it :wink:
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horizon
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby horizon » 26 Jan 2018, 11:37am

reohn2 wrote:Horizon
Did you read the comments?


I did (or at least some of them). My own impression is that fewer young people drive because it's quicker, easier and cheaper to cycle or use public transport or, in extremis, call on Mum and Dad (aka parents). Cheap flights are probably also a driver of this (if you'll excuse the pun): driving to Rhyl on holiday slightly pales in contrast to a couple of cheap flights to Ibiza. We're apparently at peak car.

And yes, brynpoeth, the article probably was clickbait. :D
Bikes belong on trains: two spaces per carriage would meet most needs.

brynpoeth
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby brynpoeth » 26 Jan 2018, 11:41am

horizon wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Horizon
Did you read the comments?


I did (or at least some of them). My own impression is that fewer young people drive because it's quicker, easier and cheaper to cycle or use public transport or, in extremis, call on Mum and Dad (aka parents). Cheap flights are probably also a driver of this (if you'll excuse the pun): driving to Rhyl on holiday slightly pales in contrast to a couple of cheap flights to Ibiza. We're apparently at peak car.

And yes, brynpoeth, the article probably was clickbait. :D

Rhyl has an excellent train service, the lovely old semaphore signals are still in use and Llandudno is not far away
Rydwyn hoffi Cymru, we love Wales!
Alternative facts welcome
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Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

reohn2
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jan 2018, 11:44am

horizon wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Horizon
Did you read the comments?


I did (or at least some of them). My own impression is that fewer young people drive because it's quicker, easier and cheaper to cycle or use public transport or, in extremis, call on Mum and Dad (aka parents). Cheap flights are probably also a driver of this (if you'll excuse the pun): driving to Rhyl on holiday slightly pales in contrast to a couple of cheap flights to Ibiza. We're apparently at peak car.

And yes, brynpoeth, the article probably was clickbait. :D

Have you been to Rhyl? :shock:
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brynpoeth
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby brynpoeth » 26 Jan 2018, 11:51am

reohn2 wrote:
horizon wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Horizon
Did you read the comments?


I did (or at least some of them). My own impression is that fewer young people drive because it's quicker, easier and cheaper to cycle or use public transport or, in extremis, call on Mum and Dad (aka parents). Cheap flights are probably also a driver of this (if you'll excuse the pun): driving to Rhyl on holiday slightly pales in contrast to a couple of cheap flights to Ibiza. We're apparently at peak car.

And yes, brynpoeth, the article probably was clickbait. :D

Have you been to Rhyl? :shock:


Yes, several times, love to walk on the beach, made a special trip to ride on the miniature steam railway, stopped at Siop-y-Morfa the Welsh bookshop
Prestatyn is good too, one can walk up the main street and keep going till one gets to Chepstow
Penmaenmawr is the best place on the top of Wales mind
Alternative facts welcome
......
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

reohn2
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jan 2018, 11:53am

brynpoeth wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
horizon wrote:
I did (or at least some of them). My own impression is that fewer young people drive because it's quicker, easier and cheaper to cycle or use public transport or, in extremis, call on Mum and Dad (aka parents). Cheap flights are probably also a driver of this (if you'll excuse the pun): driving to Rhyl on holiday slightly pales in contrast to a couple of cheap flights to Ibiza. We're apparently at peak car.

And yes, brynpoeth, the article probably was clickbait. :D

Have you been to Rhyl? :shock:


Yes, several times, love to walk on the beach, made a special trip to ride on the miniature steam railway, stopped at Siop-y-Morfa the Welsh bookshop
Prestatyn is good too, one can walk up the main street and keep going till one gets to Chepstow
Penmaenmawr is the best place on the top of Wales mind

You need a trip to Newborough beach on Anglesey,the most beautiful beach in North Wales by any stretch of the imagination :)
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I cycle therefore I am.

brynpoeth
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby brynpoeth » 26 Jan 2018, 11:56am

reohn2 wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Have you been to Rhyl? :shock:


Yes, several times, love to walk on the beach, made a special trip to ride on the miniature steam railway, stopped at Siop-y-Morfa the Welsh bookshop
Prestatyn is good too, one can walk up the main street and keep going till one gets to Chepstow
Penmaenmawr is the best place on the top of Wales mind

You need a trip to Newborough beach on Anglesey :wink:

We both need a trip to Penrhyn Castle by Bangor, I have not been there but I read that the museum now shows history from the point of view of the labourers, not just the caPitalists
You "must" stop at the Marble Church too!
Alternative facts welcome
......
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

reohn2
Posts: 30247
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jan 2018, 12:56pm

brynpoeth wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
Yes, several times, love to walk on the beach, made a special trip to ride on the miniature steam railway, stopped at Siop-y-Morfa the Welsh bookshop
Prestatyn is good too, one can walk up the main street and keep going till one gets to Chepstow
Penmaenmawr is the best place on the top of Wales mind

You need a trip to Newborough beach on Anglesey :wink:

We both need a trip to Penrhyn Castle by Bangor, I have not been there but I read that the museum now shows history from the point of view of the labourers, not just the caPitalists
You "must" stop at the Marble Church too!

Yes it's been a long time since we went to Bodelwydden :)
Not been to Penrhyn castle even though we're NT members thanks for the heads up :)
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Wanlock Dod
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 26 Jan 2018, 1:23pm

Guardian wrote:for many young people it’s an act of empowerment

Although it's only really an act of empowerment if people who can't drive (young, old, poor, disabled) are effectively excluded from the transport network because it is very heavily car focused. If we were to invest in good quality walking and cycling infrastructure perhaps young people wouldn't feel that they have been deliberately excluded from society. It is the ability to travel independently that is empowering, and cars only facilitate this in places where other modes of private transport are suppressed through high levels of motor traffic and a lack of safe facilities.

Do cars represent the same level of empowerment for young people in the Netherlands?

pwa
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Re: "A taste of freedom". Really?

Postby pwa » 26 Jan 2018, 1:30pm

If my 18 year old daughter would learn to drive, and pass her test, I would experience more freedom. She would be able to ferry my elderly and infirm parents for medical appointments, freeing me up to get out on my bike a bit more. She would be able to drive herself to places hard to get to by public transport, freeing me and my wife from that job. She shows no interest in cars and I doubt she would ever become a heavy user.