A tougher line on speeding?

[pete75]

If it's not an online navigation system it will rely on the user updating the maps and these are rarely produced more than quarterly and then a lot probably don't bother anyway.
Equipment to read the signs is more reliable and always up to date - it even recognises temporary speed limits for roadworks. The problems you and pwa describe are ones of highway maintenance not vehicle technology.

The best thing is for sign recognition to work in conjunction with other technology. Neither is perfect, and it would minimise error.

I wasn't trying to suggest that the challenges were insurmountable; only that they exist. Anyway, you don't think they are suddenly going to find more money for updating signs, trimming hedges, etc?

Well if the authorities don't provide signage as required by law they can't expect people to abide by the law can they? In the UK streets with street lighting have an implied speed limit of 30mph unless there are signs to the contrary. 40 and 50 mph limits have to have clear signage and if this is absent or unreadable due to poor maintenance then the limit doesn't apply.

[pete75]

It's the case around here that 40mph repeaters are prominent by their absence. However, there are some derestricted roads where there's a derestriction repeater on every lamp standard.

Isn't that because without the derestriction signs the lampposts would indicate a 30 limit.

[thirdcrank]

... Isn't that because without the derestriction signs the lampposts would indicate a 30 limit.

You are, of course right, that lamposts - less than 200 yards apart etc - = built-up area = 30 mph. I was responding to R2's post about 40mph repeaters which, AFAIK, are governed by the same rules as any others, but for whatever reason, you don't see them on every lamp standard. I suspect that part of the reason for the hit-and-miss 40 repeaters is long-term neglect, although I'm pretty sure there was never a situation when they were on every lamp, far from it.

[Bmblbzzz]

I understand that a stop sign hidden by vegetation must be obeyed
In Germany the yellow Ortseingansschilder (builtupareaentrysigns) generally denote max 50 kmh

The specific limit varies a little from country to country (and sometimes by time of day) but it is standard European practice that the "urban skyline" sign denotes the start of built-up area speed limit and traffic rules (eg relating to pedestrian crossings).

[pwa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43570159

Speeding offences up 8% in Wales, which presumably means more convictions. Doesn't this contradict the idea that detection is not happening? I see a lot of speed cameras, including mobile ones, these days. The isea that there is a "free for all" with offenders having little chance of being caught just doesn't chime with reality here.

[Bonefishblues]

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain it should be up 418.724%

Yours in (semi) jest

ETA
Like this on in the article:

A spokesman for speeding charity Brake said: "The increase in speeding offences in Wales indicates a deeply concerning trend of unsafe driving behaviour.

"Increased police enforcement is welcome, however, we need more robust penalties in order to deter drivers from breaking the law and putting lives at risk on our roads."

I wonder what the trend is?

[Mike Sales]

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain it should be up 418.724%

Yours in (semi) jest

I think any reasonable estimate of the actual amount of speeding would show that the proportion of offences detected is tiny. Up by 8%? still a miniscule fraction. Up by 400%? Still a tiny minority of offenders getting pinched.

[Bonefishblues]

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain it should be up 418.724%

Yours in (semi) jest

I think any reasonable estimate of the actual amount of speeding would show that the proportion of offences is detected is tiny. Up by 8%? still a miniscule fraction. Up by 400%? Still a tiny minority of offenders getting pinched.

I am grateful to you

[Mike Sales]

I am grateful to you

Sarky bogger.

[Bonefishblues]

Guilty as charged M'Lud. My Advocate Mr Thudclank will now make a plea in mitigation.

[pwa]

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain it should be up 418.724%

Yours in (semi) jest

I think any reasonable estimate of the actual amount of speeding would show that the proportion of offences detected is tiny. Up by 8%? still a miniscule fraction. Up by 400%? Still a tiny minority of offenders getting pinched.

But whatever you think the actual rate of speeding is, more people getting an unwelcome letter through the post must be welcome.

[reohn2]

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain it should be up 418.724%

Yours in (semi) jest

I think any reasonable estimate of the actual amount of speeding would show that the proportion of offences detected is tiny. Up by 8%? still a miniscule fraction. Up by 400%? Still a tiny minority of offenders getting pinched.

But whatever you think the actual rate of speeding is, more people getting an unwelcome letter through the post must be welcome.

But not for them,they'll just see themselves as victims

[pwa]

I think any reasonable estimate of the actual amount of speeding would show that the proportion of offences detected is tiny. Up by 8%? still a miniscule fraction. Up by 400%? Still a tiny minority of offenders getting pinched.

But whatever you think the actual rate of speeding is, more people getting an unwelcome letter through the post must be welcome.

But not for them,they'll just see themselves as victims

I've had that letter and my reaction was:

a) Disappointment with myself for having gone a few mph over when I didn't mean to
b) Total lack of concern about any fine, however big or small
c) Lots of concern about points now or points in the future if I repeat my mistake, which of course I intend avoiding

I didn't get points because I went on the course, and most of the people on the course had gone over by a small amount and were far from being proud of it. The ones I spoke to, with one exception, regretted the offence as well as being caught. The exception was a man who admitted to speeding a lot and justified it (without any sympathy from me) because he works a long way from home and can only make his working day tolerable by speeding down the M4 to get home at a reasonable time. My impression was that a ban was the only penalty that would have the desired effect with him. With others on the course a warning letter would have had some effect on its own. Speeding drivers are not a homogeneous group.

[reohn2]

I've had that letter and my reaction was:

a) Disappointment with myself for having gone a few mph over when I didn't mean to
b) Total lack of concern about any fine, however big or small
c) Lots of concern about points now or points in the future if I repeat my mistake, which of course I intend avoiding

I didn't get points because I went on the course, and most of the people on the course had gone over by a small amount and were far from being proud of it. The ones I spoke to, with one exception, regretted the offence as well as being caught. The exception was a man who admitted to speeding a lot and justified it (without any sympathy from me) because he works a long way from home and can only make his working day tolerable by speeding down the M4 to get home at a reasonable time. My impression was that a ban was the only penalty that would have the desired effect with him. With others on the course a warning letter would have had some effect on its own. Speeding drivers are not a homogeneous group.

I take your point but I believe the majority of motorists see the law as being there to be broken,don't see it as criminal activity and think they're being victimised if caught or as with the unrepentant chap you mention see it as an occupational hazard.
The worst of it is,that for the most part speeders,like RLJers,rarely save themselves much time at all due to UK roads being clogged up so much.
An example earlier in the week a Transit pick up truck towing a compressor zoomed past us at 80mph ++in the outside lane of the M55,only for me to catch him up and overtake him on the M6 as he queued up doing 40mph to turn off the M6 south onto the M61 10miles further on,time saved = zero,this was at 4.30pm when Insure he knew the M6 would be clogged up at that time of day,and I never went over the speed limit.
He was willing to risk a fine and points for speeding 15mph+ over his restricted limit of 60mph and a further fine and points for using the third lane whilst towing,completely stupid in the extreme.
That kind driving is by no means exceptional,I witness it on and almost daily basis!
But when the cat's perceived to be away the stupid like to play........

[Bonefishblues]

I take your point but I believe the majority of motorists see the law as being there to be broken,don't see it as criminal activity and think they're being victimised if caught or as with the unrepentant chap you mention see it as an occupational hazard.
The worst of it is,that for the most part speeders,like RLJers,rarely save themselves much time at all due to UK roads being clogged up so much.
An example earlier in the week a Transit pick up truck towing a compressor zoomed past us at 80mph ++in the outside lane of the M55,only for me to catch him up and overtake him on the M6 as he queued up doing 40mph to turn off the M6 south onto the M61 10miles further on,time saved = zero,this was at 4.30pm when Insure he knew the M6 would be clogged up at that time of day,and I never went over the speed limit.
He was willing to risk a fine and points for speeding 15mph+ over his restricted limit of 60mph and a further fine and points for using the third lane whilst towing,completely stupid in the extreme.
That kind driving is by no means exceptional,I witness it on and almost daily basis!
But when the cat's perceived to be away the stupid like to play........

I don't think people see it as "there to be broken", what I do think is that there is huge ambiguity about enforcement and some clarity and consistency is needed. What are the de facto limits? I agree that it's not seen as criminal, by and large, until it crosses some unwritten line in peoples heads - but again that's a pretty rubblish benchmark in a country which believes, in the main, that overtaking is queue-jumping .