A tougher line on speeding?

pwa
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby pwa » 31 Jan 2018, 3:22pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
pwa wrote:1mph over the limit in a low hazard situation is, I think, trivial in comparison to texting whilst driving.

OTOH it is still breaking the law.

I don't get *nothing* if I 'only' steal a few quid from a shop till.


But you must agree that we need penalties that escalate with the danger of the miscreant's behaviour.

pwa
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby pwa » 31 Jan 2018, 3:24pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
pwa wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:You could have posted that on "coincidences" :?
I would imagine it was the same van each time, in a very small area. In any case, safety cameras/vehicles should be hidden where possible
They are rare as hens teeth in North Wales

I was stopped for a "traffic offence" by West Mercia Police once
Going "too slowly", I am proud of that but it does show their priorities
Was in 1993, mind :wink:


The suspicion with particularly slow drivers (steady 25 mph on a designated 60mph road with no obvious hazards, for example) is that they are either drunk or visually impaired, so that is what they attract attention.


It was late evening in a quiet suburb. I had slowed down because a Citroen BX ( :? ) was following too close behind, then I turned off right, the cops followed me home, they asked me whether I had been drinking (of course not!) I was doing maybe 22mph where 30mph max was allowed. I try to coast and avoid braking as far as possible, I must have infuriated thousands of normal drivers :D
There was a good post by Meic recently describing how he glides along and leaves gaps of up to 500m, +1


I do go slow myself when another driver is too close.

But I also avoid going unnecessarily slow with a commercial driver, under time pressure, behind. Unless, of course, they are too close.

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mjr
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby mjr » 31 Jan 2018, 3:34pm

Psamathe wrote:
mjr wrote:Ah, but why have they gone 2mph over the speed limit? Was it because they were futzing with their phone instead of concentrating on driving?.....

Or was it because they were focusing on the nearby cyclist and suspected (s)he might be making an unpredictable move and hadn't been glancing at their speedo as often as they might normally ...

They should have slowed down if they needed to focus on something else (cyclist or anything else) and no longer had sufficient attention remaining to regulate their speed.

Psamathe wrote:Lots of possibilities and I'm not saying breaking the law is acceptable, just that we should not e.g. be focusing on people dropping cigarette ends when we have fly-tippers dumping toxic waste ... (focus limited resource into addressing/stopping the greater dangers).

Oh I think a lot of speeders are probably committing other offences. I see it as a fair tactic, similar to catching Al Capone for tax offences rather the massacres.
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pwa
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby pwa » 31 Jan 2018, 4:41pm

mjr wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
mjr wrote:Ah, but why have they gone 2mph over the speed limit? Was it because they were futzing with their phone instead of concentrating on driving?.....

Or was it because they were focusing on the nearby cyclist and suspected (s)he might be making an unpredictable move and hadn't been glancing at their speedo as often as they might normally ...

They should have slowed down if they needed to focus on something else (cyclist or anything else) and no longer had sufficient attention remaining to regulate their speed.

Psamathe wrote:Lots of possibilities and I'm not saying breaking the law is acceptable, just that we should not e.g. be focusing on people dropping cigarette ends when we have fly-tippers dumping toxic waste ... (focus limited resource into addressing/stopping the greater dangers).

Oh I think a lot of speeders are probably committing other offences. I see it as a fair tactic, similar to catching Al Capone for tax offences rather the massacres.


I have neighbours who are in their late sixties, who are the sort who pick litter up off the street, and who, in the twenty years i have known them, have always driven cautiously and, to the eye, within the speed limit. Both have attended Speed Awareness courses, having been caught over a speed limit by a couple of mph. I'm not saying they weren't wrong, but I think we should treat minor offenders more leniently than those who more blatantly speed, or who pick up their phone whilst driving. Three points on the licence is, in my view, a bit strong for getting it wrong by such a small margin. If we are to punish those who get it wrong by 1mph we need a new lower penalty that fits that level of offending. I do know people who routinely speed by a significant margin, doing say 40 in a 30, but who do not get caught because unlike my neighbours they are very good at remembering where the cameras are likely to be.

I'd prefer to see the 10% margin for error kept, and instead have hidden cameras that are located less predictably. That would make all of us safer overnight because you would never know if there was one around the next corner.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 31 Jan 2018, 5:28pm

Pretty sure the margin for error is built into most speedo's.
They are legally not allowed to underreport speed IIRC.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby squeaker » 31 Jan 2018, 5:35pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Pretty sure the margin for error is built into most speedo's.
They are legally not allowed to underreport speed IIRC.
Yep: have to allow for tyre wear ;)

PS: this petition is somewhat relevant?
"42"

pwa
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby pwa » 31 Jan 2018, 5:38pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Pretty sure the margin for error is built into most speedo's.
They are legally not allowed to underreport speed IIRC.


Satnavs give more accurate speed readings than the thing on your dash, and a satnav will tell you that you are doing 26 or thereabouts when your dash speedo says 30. On every motor vehicle I've driven. When your car's speedo says you are doing 70 you are probably doing about 65. The only thing to watch with the speed on a satnav is that there is a delay, so if you are not careful you could accelerate through the limit before the satnav catches up. Other than that, if you want to be accurate use your satnav to check your speed. I have mine set to ping at me if I go over the limit, but it only works most of the time, not all of the time.

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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby Psamathe » 31 Jan 2018, 5:44pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Pretty sure the margin for error is built into most speedo's.
They are legally not allowed to underreport speed IIRC.

Assuming those village speed display machines are accurate my own car speedo reads approx. 2 mph below that displayed by these devices @30mph. The devices have become quite popular round my area over the last year and they all seem to give a consistent reading.

Not come across any in faster speed limits so I've no idea if it's a %age below or a fixed mph below.

Ian

Cyril Haearn
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 31 Jan 2018, 5:52pm

pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Or was it because they were focusing on the nearby cyclist and suspected (s)he might be making an unpredictable move and hadn't been glancing at their speedo as often as they might normally ...

They should have slowed down if they needed to focus on something else (cyclist or anything else) and no longer had sufficient attention remaining to regulate their speed.

Psamathe wrote:Lots of possibilities and I'm not saying breaking the law is acceptable, just that we should not e.g. be focusing on people dropping cigarette ends when we have fly-tippers dumping toxic waste ... (focus limited resource into addressing/stopping the greater dangers).

Oh I think a lot of speeders are probably committing other offences. I see it as a fair tactic, similar to catching Al Capone for tax offences rather the massacres.


I have neighbours who are in their late sixties, who are the sort who pick litter up off the street, and who, in the twenty years i have known them, have always driven cautiously and, to the eye, within the speed limit. Both have attended Speed Awareness courses, having been caught over a speed limit by a couple of mph. I'm not saying they weren't wrong, but I think we should treat minor offenders more leniently than those who more blatantly speed, or who pick up their phone whilst driving. Three points on the licence is, in my view, a bit strong for getting it wrong by such a small margin. If we are to punish those who get it wrong by 1mph we need a new lower penalty that fits that level of offending. I do know people who routinely speed by a significant margin, doing say 40 in a 30, but who do not get caught because unlike my neighbours they are very good at remembering where the cameras are likely to be.

I'd prefer to see the 10% margin for error kept, and instead have hidden cameras that are located less predictably. That would make all of us safer overnight because you would never know if there was one around the next corner.


Upstanding citizens? Or Jekyll + Hyde? They have obviously NOT always driven cautiously! If they were caught once they likely exceeded the maximum limit a hundred or a thousand times without being caught

But as Walter Kempowski wrote: even the nastiest people were lovely babies once, and even the nicest people might do nasty things

I know what happens if I go a little over my agreed overdraft limit, I think that is the right approach

Are your neighbours ashamed of themselves? I suspect not, if they told you about being caught. I would be, I would aim to do max 25 in future

Hope we can argue nicely, I pick up litter too :wink:
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squeaker
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby squeaker » 31 Jan 2018, 5:57pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Pretty sure the margin for error is built into most speedo's.
They are legally not allowed to underreport speed IIRC.
Readout -0% to +10% of actual, IIRC.
"42"

pwa
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby pwa » 31 Jan 2018, 6:11pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:They should have slowed down if they needed to focus on something else (cyclist or anything else) and no longer had sufficient attention remaining to regulate their speed.


Oh I think a lot of speeders are probably committing other offences. I see it as a fair tactic, similar to catching Al Capone for tax offences rather the massacres.


I have neighbours who are in their late sixties, who are the sort who pick litter up off the street, and who, in the twenty years i have known them, have always driven cautiously and, to the eye, within the speed limit. Both have attended Speed Awareness courses, having been caught over a speed limit by a couple of mph. I'm not saying they weren't wrong, but I think we should treat minor offenders more leniently than those who more blatantly speed, or who pick up their phone whilst driving. Three points on the licence is, in my view, a bit strong for getting it wrong by such a small margin. If we are to punish those who get it wrong by 1mph we need a new lower penalty that fits that level of offending. I do know people who routinely speed by a significant margin, doing say 40 in a 30, but who do not get caught because unlike my neighbours they are very good at remembering where the cameras are likely to be.

I'd prefer to see the 10% margin for error kept, and instead have hidden cameras that are located less predictably. That would make all of us safer overnight because you would never know if there was one around the next corner.


Upstanding citizens? Or Jekyll + Hyde? They have obviously NOT always driven cautiously! If they were caught once they likely exceeded the maximum limit a hundred or a thousand times without being caught

But as Walter Kempowski wrote: even the nastiest people were lovely babies once, and even the nicest people might do nasty things

I know what happens if I go a little over my agreed overdraft limit, I think that is the right approach

Are your neighbours ashamed of themselves? I suspect not, if they told you about being caught. I would be, I would aim to do max 25 in future

Hope we can argue nicely, I pick up litter too :wink:


Have you ever driven? If so, you have almost certainly exceeded the speed limit. I have, and so has everyone who has driven. You and I try to drive nicely, as do my neighbours. They are generous people who find a smile for everyone in spite of having to care for their severely disabled daughter, who they have been looking after for 47 years, so I have no difficulty in defending their honour. But yes, they, like you if you have ever driven, have gone a little bit too fast on occasion. What does it say in the Bible about casting stones?

We all get it a bit wrong sometimes and the implementation of the law should reflect that. Small transgressions getting small penalties, big ones getting big penalties.

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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 31 Jan 2018, 6:19pm

I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in Britain and on the continent, right through London and Berlin etc

I have surely gone too fact occasionally but I have never been caught

I understand that to be caught one must be doing 30+%+x, maybe 37 mph

Are your neighbours ashamed of themselves?
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby Steve398 » 31 Jan 2018, 6:26pm

Police Traffic vehicles have calibrated speedos and get regularly checked against a stopwatch on a measured mile, in order that any speed check will be totally accurate.

The 10% inaccuracy on standard motor vehicles is simply a matter of finance, to make it any better would cost the manufacturer and of course the consumer more. Until the motor industry are obliged to provide calibrated speedometers for all vehicles the '1 mph' excess speed prosecution can't happen.

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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby Bonefishblues » 31 Jan 2018, 6:30pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in Britain and on the continent, right through London and Berlin etc

I have surely gone too fact occasionally but I have never been caught

I understand that to be caught one must be doing 30+%+x, maybe 37 mph

Are your neighbours ashamed of themselves?

30+10%+2mph under ACPO Guidelines.

pwa
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Re: A tougher line on speeding?

Postby pwa » 31 Jan 2018, 6:38pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in Britain and on the continent, right through London and Berlin etc

I have surely gone too fact occasionally but I have never been caught

I understand that to be caught one must be doing 30+%+x, maybe 37 mph

Are your neighbours ashamed of themselves?


One of them was caught doing 23 in a 20. They said it was unintentional and I believe them because they are honest people. They made a mistake, and they know that. But quite rightly they point to the fact that they try to get it right, and others who do not seem to get away with it. I've seen them driving in our village and elsewhere, and they always seem to be going slowly. And to be frank, if you knew them you would regret suggesting they should be ashamed of anything. The word "selfless" comes to mind.