The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

pwa
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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby pwa » 16 Jun 2018, 10:48am

thirdcrank wrote: My impression is that the main incentive for people to change travel mode for these shorter journeys is the growing problems of making them by car: congestion and difficulty parking, with parking a stronger deterrent effect than congestion.


There is truth in that, but if you want democratically elected government (all levels) to adopt a policy of making it difficult to park in town centres without first providing good, easy to use alternatives, that can't happen. Because it relies on those who will be forced to do something they don't want to do to actually vote for it. Solutions have to take society with them. Personally, I'm very keen on good Park and Rides. The Bath one always gets my custom.

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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Jun 2018, 11:13am

FWIW, a Bath park-and-ride is one of only a couple if used. We had a day out in Bath when we visited our younger son who was working in Yatton on the far side of Bristol. ie We used it to facilitate driving there.

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Mick F
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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby Mick F » 16 Jun 2018, 12:14pm

The one at George Junction is a good one, but the carpark is always quite full so it can be problem finding a slot.
I don't believe that all the drivers are using the busses, but leaving their cars there to care-share.
Theoretically, when the busses stop for the night, the carpark should be empty ......... but it's not.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby Barks » 16 Jun 2018, 5:26pm

I routinely split my work journeys, drive to the outskirts of the destination town, park for free in a leafy suburb and cycle into the centre where parking is next to impossible and/or expensive - usually it also saves me time as I sail past all the queued traffic. It works particularly well when I have succession of meetings at various locations through the day. It is a very pragmatic solution for me.

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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby brynpoeth » 16 Jun 2018, 5:28pm

Mick F wrote:The one at George Junction is a good one, but the carpark is always quite full so it can be problem finding a slot.
I don't believe that all the drivers are using the busses, but leaving their cars there to care-share.
Theoretically, when the busses stop for the night, the carpark should be empty ......... but it's not.

Georgemass Junction? :?
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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby MikeF » 16 Jun 2018, 6:49pm

It seems to me some of the poorer drivers overtaking cyclists on the road are those carrying bikes around on their car to somewhere where it's "safe" to cycle!
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby Barks » 17 Jun 2018, 1:54am

Is this really just an anti-car thread? I see no problem at all with using different modes of transport where they meet the needs of the occasion. The big issue as I see it is using cars as the deafualt answer to all travel needs particularly for the day to day aspects fro 0-3 Miles. Once you are over that distance then other factors start to become far more valid at least for me.

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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Jun 2018, 3:12am

Barks wrote:Is this really just an anti-car thread? I see no problem at all with using different modes of transport where they meet the needs of the occasion. The big issue as I see it is using cars as the deafualt answer to all travel needs particularly for the day to day aspects fro 0-3 Miles. Once you are over that distance then other factors start to become far more valid at least for me.

Short motor journies bad
Longer motor journies good? :?
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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby Ellieb » 17 Jun 2018, 2:03pm

brynpoeth wrote:
Barks wrote:Is this really just an anti-car thread? I see no problem at all with using different modes of transport where they meet the needs of the occasion. The big issue as I see it is using cars as the deafualt answer to all travel needs particularly for the day to day aspects fro 0-3 Miles. Once you are over that distance then other factors start to become far more valid at least for me.

Short motor journies bad
Longer motor journies good? :?

Short motor journies bad
Longer motor journies good? Yes, better than all journeys being made by car.

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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby Mick F » 17 Jun 2018, 6:13pm

brynpoeth wrote:
Mick F wrote:The one at George Junction is a good one, but the carpark is always quite full so it can be problem finding a slot.
I don't believe that all the drivers are using the busses, but leaving their cars there to care-share.
Theoretically, when the busses stop for the night, the carpark should be empty ......... but it's not.

Georgemass Junction? :?

I have been through there a couple of times.

In the old days, the train from Inverness had two coaches and at Geogemas Junction, the train split. One half went to Thurso and the other half to Wick.
These days, the train reverses back and forth to Thurso and Wick.
I was last on that train in 2010.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgemas ... ay_station
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Jun 2018, 8:45pm

Ellieb wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
Barks wrote:Is this really just an anti-car thread? I see no problem at all with using different modes of transport where they meet the needs of the occasion. The big issue as I see it is using cars as the deafualt answer to all travel needs particularly for the day to day aspects fro 0-3 Miles. Once you are over that distance then other factors start to become far more valid at least for me.

Short motor journies bad
Longer motor journies good? :?

Short motor journies bad
Longer motor journies good? Yes, better than all journeys being made by car.

Much fewer motor journies better
Maybe football tournaments could be organised oftener?
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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby recumbentpanda » 17 Jun 2018, 9:56pm

Well, I guess this thread went pretty much as I suspected it might. I can see the logic in many of the points, but still, every time I ride past a car with bike racks parked near to a cycle only route, I can’t help feeling depressed. Somehow, by creating off road infrastructure we have ended up turning cycling from a fuel free way of getting around to just another reason for burning gas.

True, many people, including me, like to ride without the ever present threat of the motor car, but for that to result in yet more car journeys just seems wrong, and more than slightly mad, even if on the surface, for each individual, it seems a logical thing to do.

Anti-car? Yes, yes I am. There will always be legitimate uses for powered vehicles, but currently I think we are ‘car-sick’ and drive-cycling is just another symptom.

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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby pwa » 17 Jun 2018, 10:08pm

recumbentpanda wrote:Well, I guess this thread went pretty much as I suspected it might. I can see the logic in many of the points, but still, every time I ride past a car with bike racks parked near to a cycle only route, I can’t help feeling depressed. Somehow, by creating off road infrastructure we have ended up turning cycling from a fuel free way of getting around to just another reason for burning gas.

True, many people, including me, like to ride without the ever present threat of the motor car, but for that to result in yet more car journeys just seems wrong, and more than slightly mad, even if on the surface, for each individual, it seems a logical thing to do.

Anti-car? Yes, yes I am. There will always be legitimate uses for powered vehicles, but currently I think we are ‘car-sick’ and drive-cycling is just another symptom.


I think there is some truth in your view, but I also think you take it too far. It is certainly better to begin your cycling from your own home, with no car use involved, but if you have a passion for a cycling adventure that is only practical to get to by car, why not? That is using a car for a journey with no practical alternative, other than missing out on something you really want to do. You can still avoid car use the rest of the week by cycling to work.

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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby Vorpal » 17 Jun 2018, 10:37pm

I guess it depends upon how you think of it. Some day, we will wonder why we considered it okay to continue making ourselves sick on the fumes and destroying the environment in the name of personal convenience.

Some of it, to be sure, is because the common person pays a considerable price for transport, and as long as the majority of people are willing to purchase and operate motor vehicles, the government does not have to ensure that everyone has access to convenient public and/or community transport. They have successfully divested themselves of a great deal of responsibility and set the burden of it upon the taxpayer.

In the meanwhile, they create *roads*, which they say are necessary for economic prosperity, in a system that is, of course oriented around the motor vehicle.

It also means paving over more area than is built upon for any other purpose, even buildings for living in. That's right. In England, for example, the land use is (in millions of sq. m.)
115.7 - greenspace
5.6 - domestic gardens
3.4 - water
2.9 - road
1.5 - domestic buildings

Approximately 1/4 of Westmister is given over to roads.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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pwa
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Re: The Tragic Proliferation of ‘Drive-Cycling’

Postby pwa » 18 Jun 2018, 6:29am

Thinking about my own area, practically all new roads are on new housing estates, so not new by-passes and that sort of thing. Just the roads that come with new housing.

Personal transport is favoured by government because it is what people want. Government cannot go against the public by making them change in ways they don't want to. Except in authoritarian regimes.

My bet is that cleaner cars will be a big part of the future, with a bigger role for public transport and cycling. But the car is not going away completely. That is just a fact, and wishing it were otherwise is a waste of emotional energy.