Stonehenge Tunnel = £1,600,000,000 (yes, that's right)

[Si]

I find archaeology very interesting but what is it good for, can you briefly summarise?
Diolch yn fawr iawn

Archaeology is often the only way to find out about people of the past. Most of human development occurred before the written record. Even when there are written records, we often lack details to put them in context, such as social structure, or the physical organisation of places and buildings.

yes, but why is knowing that stuff important?

[Vorpal]

I find archaeology very interesting but what is it good for, can you briefly summarise?
Diolch yn fawr iawn

Archaeology is often the only way to find out about people of the past. Most of human development occurred before the written record. Even when there are written records, we often lack details to put them in context, such as social structure, or the physical organisation of places and buildings.

yes, but why is knowing that stuff important?

Because we are doomed to repeat history Because helping us understand our past will help us understand our future.

Because it contributes a great deal to other scientific fields, particularly genetics. Because there is something amazing about feats of engineering performed by prehistoric people that would cost us millions to duplicate with modern technology.

Because it is cool.

[mjr]

Btw, "whats this got to do with cycling?".

(CYRUS TILTON - Fossil Fuel, 2012 http://vessel-gallery.com/tilton.html Styrofoam, paper mache, cement, acrylic, PUBLIC V3 bicycle Courtesy of … | Pinteres… more: https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/340584790542561387/ )

[Cyril Haearn]

Archaeology is often the only way to find out about people of the past. Most of human development occurred before the written record. Even when there are written records, we often lack details to put them in context, such as social structure, or the physical organisation of places and buildings.

yes, but why is knowing that stuff important?

Because we are doomed to repeat history Because helping us understand our past will help us understand our future.

Because it contributes a great deal to other scientific fields, particularly genetics. Because there is something amazing about feats of engineering performed by prehistoric people that would cost us millions to duplicate with modern technology.

Because it is cool.

Cool, interesting, fascinating, what use is that? Does it get the parsnips buttered?

[horizon]

Btw, "whats this got to do with cycling?".

The irresistible force (Highways England and its predecessors) has finally met the immovable object, a world class archaeological site. Even the culturally devoid HE has to pause and draw breath. The steam roller has halted.

But this is just a final chapter in a history of landscape destruction starting really in the 1960s: cyclists have watched while road after road has become uncyclable, history trashed and skylines marred. This is our moment. I raised the issue of the £1.6bn because that is the obscene price that HE are demanding just to ameliorate the effects of their road scheme. Their ransom demand (for that is what it is - pay up or we'll trash Stonehenge) beggars belief and it may be this time that the people don't blink. And this time the world is watching.

Cyclists look on with horror as this ghastly drama is played out while in the North East, HE are proposing to ban cycling altogether.

Yes, it's very much to do with cycling. And indeed quite a lot to do with human decency. This monster (Highways England) has to be stopped.

[Tangled Metal]

Are we doomed to repeat what caused the end of the culture that created Stonehenge?

My guess is not because we've got me current problems to doom us that I very much doubt weren't around then. Could be wrong. Perhaps the tunnel will dig up a coal fired power station built out of bluestone!

[Si]

Archaeology is often the only way to find out about people of the past. Most of human development occurred before the written record. Even when there are written records, we often lack details to put them in context, such as social structure, or the physical organisation of places and buildings.

yes, but why is knowing that stuff important?

Because we are doomed to repeat history Because helping us understand our past will help us understand our future.

yeah, but when have we ever learned from the blatently obvious examples from the past and altered our behaviour accordingly???

Because it contributes a great deal to other scientific fields, particularly genetics. Because there is something amazing about feats of engineering performed by prehistoric people that would cost us millions to duplicate with modern technology.

slaves do tend to save you a lot of money.

Because it is cool.

have you met phil harding?

---

The other popular one is environmental science....what archaeology tells us about climate change in the past and how it might differ from current climate change thus commenting upon to the extent it is man made.

[Si]

Are we doomed to repeat what caused the end of the culture that created Stonehenge?

My guess is not because we've got me current problems to doom us that I very much doubt weren't around then. Could be wrong. Perhaps the tunnel will dig up a coal fired power station built out of bluestone!

the stonehenge area demonstrates dramatic environmental change....when the first monuments were erected the area was probably well forested with moderate clearnaces dotted across the landscape. By the time the last stones went up it was probably mostly pasture/grass land. This man made clearance of the forest led to a fair bit of soil erosion, esp in the uplands, and changes to the river system with flood plains appearing and lots of alluvium collecting in the vallies.

[geocycle]

Archaeology is often the only way to find out about people of the past. Most of human development occurred before the written record. Even when there are written records, we often lack details to put them in context, such as social structure, or the physical organisation of places and buildings.

yes, but why is knowing that stuff important?

Because we are doomed to repeat history Because helping us understand our past will help us understand our future.

Because it contributes a great deal to other scientific fields, particularly genetics. Because there is something amazing about feats of engineering performed by prehistoric people that would cost us millions to duplicate with modern technology.

Because it is cool.

Or as Kierkegaard said, we live forward but understand backwards.

[rjb]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the obvious solution. Relocate the stones so somewhere within the M25, and dual the existing road but bypass the villages. You could then develop a theme park somewhere near heathrow would be my preferred option. Easy access for all. What's not to like.

[MikeF]

Roads especially large ones fragment the countryside. More roads need to be in tunnels or least have sizeable land bridges. Twyford Down in Hampshire was an obvious candidate for the M3 and might have reduced much of the protest. The M27 is tunnelled North East of Brighton. There is now the Hindhead tunnel which restores continuity of the land above it.

[Bonefishblues]

]
What are the new discoveries, how could they rewrite our understanding?

Looking forward to a report from your 'jolly'

afraid i'm not allowed to say until its been published......such is the way of these things. Surfice to say other recent work has, for instance, rewritten the dating of the various phases, and demonstrated that people were a lot more mobile than we previously thought, having much greater networks of contact with people in other areas.

Are they shaped and joined like in carpentry?

yep, they used woodworking joints to fix the lintels to the uprights.

Could you do me just one favour though? Could you do everything in your power to keep Alice Roberts away from it? She gets on my wick!

[Si]

One thing that i did notice in the tunnel reports was mention of the possibility of closing the greenway/boat that runs next to the stones. I wouldnt mind too much if it was closed to motor vehicles, although the camper vans full of new age travelers, druids and strange northern europeans do add to the SH atmosphere. But i hope they dont shut it to bikes as its a real nice route that allows you to get into the SH envelope without having to go on often fast busy roads.

[Cyril Haearn]

boat = byway open to all traffic
maybe a boat was used to bring the stones from Wales, was the sea level higher then?

[horizon]

Roads especially large ones fragment the countryside. More roads need to be in tunnels or least have sizeable land bridges. Twyford Down in Hampshire was an obvious candidate for the M3 and might have reduced much of the protest. The M27 is tunnelled North East of Brighton. There is now the Hindhead tunnel which restores continuity of the land above it.

On the face of it, this may be true. But I've been all over the tunnel area around Hindhead and IMV the effect on the landscape is still appalling - great banks of road cutting off the surrounding area.

Two more points:

1. These are last gasp, horrendously expensive solutions and the latest (at £1.6bn) just shows that they have reached their limit.
2. They don't address the real problem: that the "we must have our road at any price" has to be challenged.

It's interesting that Hindhead was also left to the last - the rest of the destructive effects of the A3 were allowed to happen. Again, I presume that HE thought that logic would dictate an A3 on stilts across the Punchbowl - after all the rest of the A3 had been built. They were wrong.

My guess is the Stonehenge tunnel will never be built and HE and the roads lobby are going to have a Ceauşescu moment as society finally gets a grip on their power-mad antics.