Minimum Noise Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles

[Cyril Haearn]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if electric vehicles made some noise beyond tyre noise. On a windy day we all make allowances for not being able to hear traffic as well as on a calm day. It's a pain, but we do it. Very quiet vehicles would extend that difficulty to every day. On a quiet lane, on a lovely calm day, I can climb a hill in a relaxed way knowing that the fact that all I can hear is my own bike and the birds means that there is nothing bigger than another cyclist about to try to pass me. With cars that are silent apart from tyre noise that feeling of security will be gone. And that will detract from my enjoyment.

I don't want electric vehicles to be especially noisy, I just want some noise built in.

The tyre noise will alert you.
If you've ever had a pedestrian step out right in front of you when on the bike you'll know the fear/concern as you quickly decide to swerve or brake .
If electric cars are as quite as you assume they'll be,pedestrians will learn PDQ to "look before they leap" which will have positive spinoffs for cyclist/pedestrian encounters

But again, how will a blind person feel about very quiet cars? I don't like the idea, but for them it must be a real worry. They won't want to have to rely on the drivers having learned to be more careful.

How might one get drivers of electric vehicles to be more careful, suggestions please

How may I identify blind or partially sighted people when I am driving? Do they always have a guide dog, are they required to wear a white armband?

[Steady rider]

http://www.ukna.org.uk/uploads/4/1/4/5/ ... _noise.pdf
Looks like about 50 db is required as a minimum. Dry to wet conditions could also be a factor.

[Vorpal]

Electric vehicles already make noise. I can hear them when I am standing, walking, pedalling about town, etc. I don't hear them when there is wind noise in my ears, or when they follow noisier vehicles. But I don't always hear combustion engine vehicles in those circumstances, either.

[pwa]

Electric vehicles already make noise. I can hear them when I am standing, walking, pedalling about town, etc. I don't hear them when there is wind noise in my ears, or when they follow noisier vehicles. But I don't always hear combustion engine vehicles in those circumstances, either.

And in situations where there is already traffic around us we don't rely on sound so much. We assume there is something approaching from behind until or unless we establish otherwise. It is in quieter locations that the lack of noise from an electric vehicle would make a difference, in circumstances where, at the moment, quiet means safe.

[Bmblbzzz]

Bird protection is an issue to consider.

I try to minimise the time in the central position for turning, if riding alone, riding in a group it is a bit different, depends on circumstances.

RVM is another topic for research perhaps. Data on the overall accident rate for users of RVMs compared with non-users. Hardly used in the Netherland that seem to have a lower accident rate per billion km. On occasions they may well provide a benefit but actual accident data may be useful to see. Then again users of RVM may also use hi vis, flashing lights or ride more carefully, so accident data would only be an indication.

Do you mean protection of birds, protection of riders against birds, or what? And why? Genuinely mystified!

[Mick F]

Our Yaris Hybrid is silent at low speeds.

We live along a quiet lane and there's usually walkers along there. We drive slowly along the road ............ far slower than most drivers ......... and if there's a walker, we aren't heard at all. Even more quiet than a bicycle. It's a bit of an issue, but not much. They eventually see us.

[kwackers]

Even more quiet than a bicycle.

You should oil your chain...

Seriously, how can it be quieter than a bicycle?

[Mick F]

Going down the lane I describe, a bicycle "jiggles" even at 10mph.
Noises from mudguards, chain and transmission, freewheel, even tyre noises.
All quite quiet, but noises that can be heard nonetheless.
Moulton is noisier than Mercian, mainly due to the SA3sp jiggling whilst freewheeling.

Same speed in our Yaris hybrid, is total silence .................... unless the engine is running of course, which it usually isn't if we're on the way home.

Driving the car in town is strange. Reversing and manoeuvring is very strange. Utter silence. Not even a clutch to release or an engine to rev. Utter utter silence. It's weird and takes some getting used to. Full EV cars would be like that all the time.

[Mick F]

PS:
The Hybrid system, you have no personal control of the engine at all. It runs if it needs to, and that's quite a bit when the car is cold and the weather is cold, as the engine needs to warm up and also to warm up the cabin. When all is at full temp, the engine stops, and only runs if you drive harder.

Parking speeds and speeds of up to 40mph on the flat, the engine is off. Come to a hill or even a slope, the engine flashes up to assist.

In reverse, no matter how hard you press the throttle or how steep the hill, the car reverses in silence as there's no reverse gearbox and so the engine can't drive the car backwards. Reverse is produced by the electric motor being driven backwards.

Utter silence at parking speeds and low speeds on the flat ....... like in a town.

[Steady rider]

by Bmblbzzz » 9 Feb 2018, 1:40pm

Steady rider wrote:
Bird protection is an issue to consider

Sorry for not explaining properly. I was thinking more birds will get hit by vehicles due to the vehicles making less noise.
This week a bird was stunned and needed moving to the road side, I have come across other birds, needing moving. The tyre noise and engine noise of ICE's will probably be higher than Hybrid and Electric Vehicles tyre noise alone. I note birds react to noise sooner than being in visual sight.

[Cyril Haearn]

by Bmblbzzz » 9 Feb 2018, 1:40pm

Steady rider wrote:
Bird protection is an issue to consider

Sorry for not explaining properly. I was thinking more birds will get hit by vehicles due to the vehicles making less noise.
This week a bird was stunned and needed moving to the road side, I have come across other birds, needing moving. The tyre noise and engine noise of ICE's will probably be higher than Hybrid and Electric Vehicles tyre noise alone. I note birds react to noise sooner than being in visual sight.

Thread drift
What about insects, there are apparently many fewer of them now

[reohn2]

But again, how will a blind person feel about very quiet cars?

I thought I answered that by posting that the loudest thing hear on approaching car is it's tyres on the road.Most modern cars engines are very quiet indeed,my daughter has a 3.0l diesel Land Rover Discovery(I know) I can barely hear it when stood by the side of it,however the 30cm wide tyres on the move is another matter.

I don't like the idea, but for them it must be a real worry. They won't want to have to rely on the drivers having learned to be more careful.

They mostly rely on drivers being careful now,along with textured paving,white stick,and or a guide dog.
TBH I don't see it as much of an issue,it's the drivers job to be aware the vulnerable road user,more so someone who's blind.The issue brings us back to driving standards which IME are poor on UK roads,the whole ethos is one of get out of my way which is a completely wrong attitude which has flourished where car is king,something needs doing about that state of affairs IMO.

[Mick F]

Utterly agree R2.

As I say, our Yaris is silent, and I know this, and drive accordingly.
Gentle and considerate driving.

[tatanab]

I thought I answered that by posting that the loudest thing hear on approaching car is it's tyres on the road.

That is true. Cycling in the lanes, due to tyre noise and some wind noise I can hear an approaching motor vehicle sometimes 30 seconds and more before it arrives. That is any car, electric or not. The issue about lack of noise is applicable much more to low speed town traffic where tyre noise does not dominate. A near neighbour has an electric car and I know that I cannot hear that as it pulls away, but this also applies to some modern ICE cars as well.

[reohn2]

How might one get drivers of electric vehicles to be more careful, suggestions please

What would apply to all drivers of all vehicles would be enforcing the laws we already have,and harsher penalties,especially for repeat offenders.

How may I identify blind or partially sighted people when I am driving? Do they always have a guide dog, are they required to wear a white armband?

Blind people don't all have a guide dog,but if they don't they do need a white stick to feel their way,they don't have to wear a white arm band,blind and hearing impaired people have a red and white stick.