Minimum Noise Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles

[Steady rider]

Minimum Noise Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles

Transport Canada is conducting preliminary consultations on amending the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations to address minimum noise requirements for hybrid and electric vehicles.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/consultations.htm

I expect a benefit may come from matching existing traffic. Related to speed and vehicle size perhaps. If accurate data is available on vehicle make/type and hazard to other road users, perhaps noise also related to this.

[kwackers]

The majority of noise a vehicle makes is from the tyres, engines are very quiet these days.

Of course bicycles are even quieter (apart from those owned by ninjas which have the obligatory squeaky chain), perhaps we should all have a lolly stick jammed in our spokes?

I'm guessing suggesting the drivers actually pay attention is out of the question? The onus once again falling on those outside of the vehicle to keep out of the way...

[Steady rider]

Visually impaired and disability associations believe hybrid and electric vehicles (HEV) need to produce noise so people with visual impairments can hear them. A Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (CMVSS) 141 – Minimum Noise Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles would aim to improve the safety of vulnerable road users, especially the visually impaired, by making sounds cyclists and pedestrians can hear and recognize.

https://letstalktransportation.ca/minim ... c-vehicles

3 comments posted

We have a 3 cylinder Suzuki that is so quiet it is hard to know then the engine is running.

[rmurphy195]

The majority of noise a vehicle makes is from the tyres, engines are very quiet these days.

I would dispute this, in a manner of speaking - road surface makes the biggest difference to the noise generated!m My car is a small convertible that is not insulated from noise at all, and changing road surfaces can give a silent ride at one end of the scale, to an incredible din at the other!

But I digress - shouldn't this thread be about maximum noise limits, not minimum noise limits?

[Cyril Haearn]

Electric vehicles could have sensors, when no people were around they could be silent, in town or when a horse was on the road they could make an appropriate noise...
I am a railway enthusiast, can my vehicle be made to sound like an IC125?

[flat tyre]

One of the problems with these vehicles is that they emit almost no noise when traveling at low speeds e.g. manoeuvring in a car park, so they could present a hazard to pedestrians and cyclists.

[kwackers]

One of the problems with these vehicles is that they emit almost no noise when traveling at low speeds e.g. manoeuvring in a car park, so they could present a hazard to pedestrians and cyclists.

By the same token cyclists present a hazard to pedestrians. How do we propose to fix that?

What about deaf cyclists and pedestrians?
The problem with having cars deliberately make a noise is their drivers simply apply some risk compensation. No longer do they need to worry about others because their vehicle now emits a warning noise so those outside will take more care right?

Reminds me of trucks that beep when they're reversing. When did you ever see the driver of one get out and check first? There's no need, because the truck is beeping so everyone will get out if its way.

There actually is no problem. It just requires the drivers to take some care (and cyclists when they're around pedestrians).

[Steady rider]

Cyclists know roughly where vehicles are due to the sound they make. It alerts cyclists not to move out at an unsuitable time. Some typical sound levels should be recorded and tested with cyclists, perhaps on a closed circuit. See what levels are good for letting the cyclist or pedestrian know the vehicle is approaching but not so loud as to cause a problem.

[Vorpal]

I cannot hear other vehicles when I am going fast downhill due to wind noise. I often do not hear them when they are following another vehicle. I cannot hear electric cars over the wind noise in in my ears at ~18 mph.

I look for them. I look before I move out. I look before I turn. I look when I am approaching a junction. I do that even if I can hear them, because sometimes the driver of a following vehicle has done something stupid or dangerous.

I don't want electric vehicles making noise. I like that they are quiet. There is enough noise already.

[pwa]

When I cycle the hilly lanes around where I live I hear cars and vans approaching from behind as I climb slowly. I find the noise adds to the mental picture I have of what is going on around me. I'd miss that if it went, if motor vehicles crept up and caught me by surprise. It would also be one more danger to add to the life of my partially sighted Dad. Okay, he can't hear cycles as things are, but if he steps out into the path of a bicycle the bicycle is very likely to weave around him, and being hit by the bike would not necessarily be too serious. At his age being hit by a car would be very likely to prove fatal. We most certainly do need heavy moving objects to make a noise as they use the roads.

The argument that deaf people have to make do without audible warning is plain daft. It is basically an argument that one person misses out on a sensory warning so we should all miss out.

[pwa]

What about deaf cyclists and pedestrians?

What about blind pedestrians who can hear?

[Cyril Haearn]

..
..
. the argument that deaf people have to make do without audible warning is plain daft. It is basically an argument that one person misses out on a sensory warning so we should all miss out.

+1
We will all be old and deaf one day, even Vorpal and I
The smombies are young and already deaf

[Steady rider]

by Vorpal » 9 Feb 2018, 6:50am wrote

I cannot hear other vehicles when I am going fast downhill due to wind noise. I often do not hear them when they are following another vehicle. I cannot hear electric cars over the wind noise in in my ears at ~18 mph.

I look for them. I look before I move out. I look before I turn. I look when I am approaching a junction. I do that even if I can hear them, because sometimes the driver of a following vehicle has done something stupid or dangerous.

I don't want electric vehicles making noise. I like that they are quiet. There is enough noise already.

If using a road with a traffic flow rate of 10 vehicles per minute, one every 6 seconds, you could be spending quite some time looking back and miss a pot hole, and end up not so happy. Most of the time I do not need to look back as I can hear approaching traffic, so it gives a good indication of what is best to do and when to do it. If a driver is going too fast and the engine is riving you can hear this and know to take more care.

[Bmblbzzz]

The majority of noise a vehicle makes is from the tyres, engines are very quiet these days.

I would dispute this, in a manner of speaking - road surface makes the biggest difference to the noise generated!m My car is a small convertible that is not insulated from noise at all, and changing road surfaces can give a silent ride at one end of the scale, to an incredible din at the other!

But I digress - shouldn't this thread be about maximum noise limits, not minimum noise limits?

No, because minimum noise limits are what is proposed.

[kwackers]

If using a road with a traffic flow rate of 10 vehicles per minute, one every 6 seconds, you could be spending quite some time looking back and miss a pot hole, and end up not so happy. Most of the time I do not need to look back as I can hear approaching traffic, so it gives a good indication of what is best to do and when to do it. If a driver is going too fast and the engine is riving you can hear this and know to take more care.

I agree with Vorpal.

But I don't follow why you need all that time looking back. I look back, move out and stay out until it's safe to move back. You seem to suggest that we're popping back and forth like yoyo's.

The sound cars make isn't much use most of the time. I've just cycled 21 miles into a headwind, practically everyone that overtook made no noise that was audible above the wind.
To be any use at all the noise would have to be louder than the current engine noise.

Incidentally if you go onto pretty much any motorcycle forum and search for "loud pipes" you'll find no shortage of motorcyclists who believe their illegal exhausts save lives.