Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:The great majority break the law:
STOP signs, maximum speed limits, following/passing distance &c &c

:lol:

If I had a pound...

You modified my quote (bold), that is not allowed :wink:
... you would soon be rich. Fact is, the law requires one to halt at a stop sign before proceeding, nearly all drivers do not stop. Are your observations different? Or do you think one may disobey this law? Please answer, Vielen Dank!
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Mike Sales wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Once again a narrow point has become conflated with a much, much wider opportunity to have a pop at drivers. This is what frustrates. We will get nowhere like this. The more we get up on our little hill and shout, the wider the divide becomes, and the less bridgeable the gap.

As you correctly state, it is a very small minority of drivers who cause harm and risk. These drivers are in no way supported by the vast majority of law-abiding [sic] and responsible [sic] drivers who would also wish them off the road, or at the very least their behaviour to be much better controlled than is currently the case. How about we make common cause with them, rather than labelling them in the manner below:

I am talking about the attitude towards driving which enables drivers to behave so badly, to speed, use the phone, accelerate on amber, etc. etc. and at the same time believe that they are responsible road users (and incidentally also believe that "cyclists are dangerous).

The vast majority of drivers would be mortified to hear that they had caused fear or danger to a cyclist. The actions of Chris Boardman and others are focused on education of both parties (and indeed of "the authorities"). I personally try to contribute to this in my small way by challenging attitudes which are uninformed. I hope we all do. What I don't do is label whole swathes of people to no purpose except to widen the divide.


Someone once said that most accidents are caused not by drivers taking big risks, but by smaller risks taken routinely. In the end the small risktaker will come unstuck. I take it that "car went out of control" is an attempt to excuse a driver who miscalculated a little. As it might be, they were looking down at the phone when their glance forward had noticed nothing significant, but this quick glance missed the cyclist. Perhaps they were ignoring HC 126. (unless most people have much better night vision than me, this is commonplace). Most drivers drive up the exhaust pipe of the vehicle in front.
..
..

I feel a poll coming on

Some of us on this cycling forum assert that most drivers are careful!

Some assert that most break the law a lot!

Could both be right? Does The Truth lie somewhere in the middle?

BTW I shortened the quote to save space (...), I do not mean to distort or interpret
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by Bonefishblues »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:The great majority break the law:
STOP signs, maximum speed limits, following/passing distance &c &c

:lol:

If I had a pound...

You modified my quote (bold), that is not allowed :wink:
... you would soon be rich. Fact is, the law requires one to halt at a stop sign before proceeding, nearly all drivers do not stop. Are your observations different? Or do you think one may disobey this law? Please answer, Vielen Dank!

I'm afraid that I have to confess that I have never done a scientific study of same, rather I was commenting on your seeming ability to shoehorn it in just about anywhere. I reckon that the real reason is those drivers are too scared to stop at the signs when you are loitering there eine Befragung durchführen as I think you might say? :lol:
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote: :lol:

If I had a pound...

You modified my quote (bold), that is not allowed :wink:
... you would soon be rich. Fact is, the law requires one to halt at a stop sign before proceeding, nearly all drivers do not stop. Are your observations different? Or do you think one may disobey this law? Please answer, Vielen Dank!

I'm afraid that I have to confess that I have never done a scientific study of same, rather I was commenting on your seeming ability to shoehorn it in just about anywhere. I reckon that the real reason is those drivers are too scared to stop at the signs when you are loitering there eine Befragung durchführen as I think you might say? :lol:

That ('scared to stop') is a rather unnecessary attempt at humour :? I do not loiter, the sign is in town, there are plenty of people about

Just answer the question PLEASE! Do you think it is ok to ignore STOP signs?
Please answer! Merci beaucuoup

PS: Befragung: asking questions, Beobachtung: observation
I would love to read others observations too, is there a STOP sign somewhere that is generally heeded?
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by Cyril Haearn »

BTW most of the stop signs I know require one to stop before crossing a cycle lane
They were put up with good reason I think
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pwa
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by pwa »

Wasn't this thread specifically about numpties who blame their cars for their loss of control?
Bonefishblues
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by Bonefishblues »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:You modified my quote (bold), that is not allowed :wink:
... you would soon be rich. Fact is, the law requires one to halt at a stop sign before proceeding, nearly all drivers do not stop. Are your observations different? Or do you think one may disobey this law? Please answer, Vielen Dank!

I'm afraid that I have to confess that I have never done a scientific study of same, rather I was commenting on your seeming ability to shoehorn it in just about anywhere. I reckon that the real reason is those drivers are too scared to stop at the signs when you are loitering there eine Befragung durchführen as I think you might say? :lol:

That ('scared to stop') is a rather unnecessary attempt at humour :? I do not loiter, the sign is in town, there are plenty of people about

Just answer the question PLEASE! Do you think it is ok to ignore STOP signs?
Please answer! Merci beaucuoup

PS: Befragung: asking questions, Beobachtung: observation
I would love to read others observations too, is there a STOP sign somewhere that is generally heeded?

Why on earth would you think that I or anyone else would think otherwise? Of course it isn't OK. I had (wrongly, clearly) assumed that you weren't serious in asking.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by Cyril Haearn »

pwa wrote:Wasn't this thread specifically about numpties who blame their cars for their loss of control?

AROS YMA! STOP HERE!
Thread drift is allowed, right? Are there any stop signs in south Wales that are generally obeyed?
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pwa
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by pwa »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
pwa wrote:Wasn't this thread specifically about numpties who blame their cars for their loss of control?

AROS YMA! STOP HERE!
Thread drift is allowed, right? Are there any stop signs in south Wales that are generally obeyed?


Stop signs are rare here. Can't think of one off the top of my head.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by Bonefishblues »

pwa wrote:Wasn't this thread specifically about numpties who blame their cars for their loss of control?

It was, but it escaped early and frankly I gave up on it as it followed a well-trodden path.
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I'm afraid that I have to confess that I have never done a scientific study of same, rather I was commenting on your seeming ability to shoehorn it in just about anywhere. I reckon that the real reason is those drivers are too scared to stop at the signs when you are loitering there eine Befragung durchführen as I think you might say? :lol:

That ('scared to stop') is a rather unnecessary attempt at humour :? I do not loiter, the sign is in town, there are plenty of people about

Just answer the question PLEASE! Do you think it is ok to ignore STOP signs?
Please answer! Merci beaucuoup

PS: Befragung: asking questions, Beobachtung: observation
I would love to read others observations too, is there a STOP sign somewhere that is generally heeded?

Why on earth would you think that I or anyone else would think otherwise? Of course it isn't OK. I had (wrongly, clearly) assumed that you weren't serious in asking.

Just shows how two people from the 'home counties' can misunderstand each other :wink:
The sad truth is that the majority of drivers think otherwise, ignore stop signs, and your assertion that most drivers are decent is wrong, right?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Mike Sales wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Why is this a necessary self deception as you term it?


The idea that a car can "go out of control" is obvious nonsense and yet it is such a frequent description of driver misjudgement that it must fulfill an important function in accounting for "accidents." I suggest the function is to avoid having to put the blame where it belongs.

Point may have been raised before - but it *is* possible.

Brake failure is one cause, and I know a couple of vehicles which, thanks to competent driving, have been brought to a controlled and safe halt under such conditions.

Electronics failure is another, all sorts of stuff is electronically linked nowadays, and a throttle sensor failure could easily cause ‘runaway’ behaviour.

Of course normally thee things turn out to be ‘hit the wrong pedal’
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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reohn2
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by reohn2 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Why is this a necessary self deception as you term it?


The idea that a car can "go out of control" is obvious nonsense and yet it is such a frequent description of driver misjudgement that it must fulfill an important function in accounting for "accidents." I suggest the function is to avoid having to put the blame where it belongs.

Point may have been raised before - but it *is* possible.

Brake failure is one cause, and I know a couple of vehicles which, thanks to competent driving, have been brought to a controlled and safe halt under such conditions.

Electronics failure is another, all sorts of stuff is electronically linked nowadays, and a throttle sensor failure could easily cause ‘runaway’ behaviour.

I know there's been the Toyota problems a couple of years ago but that said,you'd think the intrinsic default position for electronic failure the onboard commuter would shut down the whole system and apply the brakes.


'Of course normally thee things turn out to be ‘hit the wrong pedal'

Or playing 'jack the lad'.
Last edited by reohn2 on 4 Mar 2018, 10:05am, edited 1 time in total.
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pete75
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by pete75 »

reohn2 wrote:I know why but is it not a travesty that the conviction was only "careless" driving,incredible IMHO



Apparently it was on a private road - maybe that's the most they could manage as perhaps dangerous etc only relates to public roads.
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reohn2
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Re: Be careful - cars can accelerate uncontrollably...

Post by reohn2 »

pete75 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I know why but is it not a travesty that the conviction was only "careless" driving,incredible IMHO



Apparently it was on a private road - maybe that's the most they could manage as perhaps dangerous etc only relates to public roads.

There seems to be a huge anomaly in the law if it is,unlawful killing should attract a manslaughter charge IMO
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