Self driving car kills pedestrian.

[The utility cyclist]

A self driving car doesn’t need to shoulder check - and it doesn’t need to be perfect, just better than the average meatsa I.

Given the current rate of development we will be there fairly soon (not with Uber, but with the actual motor manufacturers, google, Tesla etc.

There are a variety of approaches being taken, and it is possible that by the time my kids need to drive they won’t need to...

I mentioned shoulder check with respect to me cycling, are you now saying we are to have AI cycling us along as well?
It's not about just being better than the average it's as I said an opportunity for self driving vehicles to be as good as the best and most aware AND to give more priority in the way I described that I do to those that are more vulnerable to motor traffic and present potential harm to me.
The nuanced examples imentioned AI is nowhere near and even then it would take a government to make law to do so which they currently could with respect to safety but haven't, not ever so in that respect self driving vehicles would be a failure.

Instead of figuring a better solution like simply eradicating cars and motor vehicles as much as possible, billions is being given/invested to the motor industry so the cycle can continue.

Whilst I'm not opposed to self driving vehicles per-se, the ability and fallibility of them to analyse as much as someone like myself is well short and those programming under weak laws is not going to improve things as much as one belives.
You only need look at current thining that allows the likes of Mercedes to programme their vehicles to sacrifice others(innocent vulnerable road and near road users) to save their vehicles occupents. This is apparently ok with government.

[Vorpal]

regarding the Tesla crash, there's an interesting video on YouTube... [youtube]VVJSjeHDvfY[/youtube]

[Wanlock Dod]

This article on emergency braking sensors seems to be fairly relevant.

[Pete Owens]

There are a variety of approaches being taken, and it is possible that by the time my kids need to drive they won’t need to...

Depending on how young they are I think it is more likely by then that they (or any of us) will be allowed to. Computer control will be so much better than ape brains at avoiding hitting things that they will be deemed an essential and compulsory safety feature.

[[XAP]Bob]

A self driving car doesn’t need to shoulder check - and it doesn’t need to be perfect, just better than the average meatsa I.

Given the current rate of development we will be there fairly soon (not with Uber, but with the actual motor manufacturers, google, Tesla etc.

There are a variety of approaches being taken, and it is possible that by the time my kids need to drive they won’t need to...

I mentioned shoulder check with respect to me cycling, are you now saying we are to have AI cycling us along as well?

Are you saying that you don't shoulder check when driving?

[The utility cyclist]

A self driving car doesn’t need to shoulder check - and it doesn’t need to be perfect, just better than the average meatsa I.

Given the current rate of development we will be there fairly soon (not with Uber, but with the actual motor manufacturers, google, Tesla etc.

There are a variety of approaches being taken, and it is possible that by the time my kids need to drive they won’t need to...

I mentioned shoulder check with respect to me cycling, are you now saying we are to have AI cycling us along as well?

Are you saying that you don't shoulder check when driving?

Where did you fathom that from and what relevance does it have to the discussion, I clearly said that (currently) Ai cars have a long, long way to go to get to the very highest standards of driving because they are incapable of reading scenarios as accurately and as far ahead and be able to work out what is very likely to happen with multiple things going on at the same time. I talked about shoulder checking when on the bike as an example of what I do to allow me to be courteous and give priority to more vulnerable road users but also to motor vehicles on occasion when it would aid my safety or simply allow someone ahead because it's easy and better for all concerned.
It was you who said an AI vehicle doesn't need to shoulder check, I disagree actually, it very much does need to because otherwise it's simply a passive system, it's not anticipating, it's reacting, nor is it able to make decisions based on well being, advanced safety planning that also allows the vulnerable to advance first whilst at the same time removing the killing machine threat to the vulnerable at the same time. These ARE things I see as an advanced driver/cyclist and how we should go about to make the environment better for the vulnerable in every way. Again, I explained this in my comment at length.
Your single line question is meaningless but maybe you think that systems that don't take courtesy and advanced safety planning into consideration aren't worth bothering with?

[RickH]

Some of it is down to semantics.

I understood the comment about AI & shoulder checks to mean that an AI controlled car doesn't need to do one because it is already "looking" over its shoulder, & in every other direction, ALL the time. I didn't take it to mean that it could just ignore what was in that direction.

[Phileas]

(currently) Ai cars have a long, long way to go to get to the very highest standards of driving because they are incapable of reading scenarios as accurately and as far ahead and be able to work out what is very likely to happen with multiple things going on at the same time.

Is is possible you’re underestimating the current best driving AIs (I’m thinking Google not Uber) and rather overestimating the abilities of the best human drivers?

[Cyril Haearn]

The Grauniad reports that driver has been banned for 18 months after being caught sitting in the passenger seat, the drivers seat was empty
He put the vehicle in automatic mode on the M1, then moved his ***** over to the passenger seat

+18?

[De Sisti]

The Grauniad reports that driver has been banned for 18 months after being caught sitting in the passenger seat, the drivers seat was empty
He put the vehicle in automatic mode on the M1, then moved his **** over to the passenger seat

+18?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-be ... s-43934504

[Psamathe]

Update (but nothing startling)

Uber’s self-driving car saw the pedestrian but didn’t swerve – report
Tuning of car’s software to avoid false positives blamed, as US National Transportation Safety Board investigation continues
...
Although the car’s sensors detected Herzberg, its software which decides how it should react was tuned too far in favour of ignoring objects in its path which might be “false positives” (such as plastic bags), according to a report from the Information. This meant the modified Volvo XC90 did not react fast enough.

Ian

[[XAP]Bob]

I mentioned shoulder check with respect to me cycling, are you now saying we are to have AI cycling us along as well?

Are you saying that you don't shoulder check when driving?

Where did you fathom that from and what relevance does it have to the discussion

self driving cars don't need to shoulder check - which was something you said they didn't do.
The response you gave (that you were referring to cyclists shoulder checking) seemed rather incongruous.

Your single line question is meaningless but maybe you think that systems that don't take courtesy and advanced safety planning into consideration aren't worth bothering with?

Frankly I think that anything that removes the nut from behind the wheel is well worth pursuing. In this case the *designated safety driver* failed in their responsibility.

However to suggest that uber are a bastion of good development practice is rather 'brave', I'd happily see them shut down entirely.
Watching the various other manufacturers is actually quite interesting - the recent Tesla crash for instance (despite that explicitly not being a self driving car) is going to make a significant difference to the way that *all* Teslas read the road. Google have been crashed into a few times, and that's ignoring the work that the actual car manufacturers are doing...

[Flinders]

I'm all for new technology when it works, but so far it looks to me like self-driving cars ought to be banned for good. Firstly, it isn't yet anything like good enough for the job, and secondly, it's clear that even at this early stage it's clear that humans are incapable of paying attention when it is in operation (and humans will always need to be alert to its failures).

I think it's a waste of time, money and effort- more of all three spent on enforcement of road laws, and on developing systems to assist and alert drivers, rather then let them off the hook, would be a better way.

[Vorpal]

I'm all for new technology when it works, but so far it looks to me like <deleted> cars ought to be banned for good.

Fixed that for you

[Mike Sales]

All In The Mind yesterday on Radio 4 discussed risk taking.
One aspect looked at the distance to an oncoming car in the face of which pedestrians were prepared to cross. It was found that if a pedestrian knew that the oncoming car was driverless with effective detection they were prepared to allow less distance. The person discussing this suggested stricter controls on pedestrians crossing might be necessary, to avoid the traffic being disrupted by pedestrians.
They also talked about what John Adams calls the trolleybus problem. That is resolving the dilemma when an action may save several people at the expense of one.
This programme is on i-player.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b1r3j1

Cyclists were also mentioned in passing.