Condition of my local cycle path

[pwa]

I need to be more specific, working for benefits would be optional, and the amount of work done would be so that the amount you receive in benefits for said work would be at or above the living wage. I believe JSA or UC is about £70 per week. So for 1 8 hour day that would mean £8.75 per hour. Doing this would also make other requirements non mandatory, basically they would not be able to sanction you for not looking for work that week. I say this as something I wouldn't have minded doing when I was on the dole going out of my mind, plus it would give me experience. You do have a valid point with regards to the possible impact it would have. Its not a perfect solution but then I dont think there is one.

With regards to the EU, I never even voted. I have no idea of what happens, or the benefits and cons of either outcome so I was not in a position to vote. Should I have tried to research it? Probably, but I believe that any information would be biased one way or the other. I do think people voted because they wanted to end immigration, kind of like America voted Trump because he said he would ban muslims.

What would you consider a high tax economy? I only earn 20k, so no I dont pay substantial amounts in tax because I earn not that much, but like I said about higher earners. That is a huge proportion of their wages however you look at it.

Back to the cycle paths issue, one of the canal tow paths near me is being resurfaced, however it has been that way for about 2 months now, and its only last week that part of that section has been opened again. Thats a good sign if a little slow. There arent too many cyclepaths my way that are great for road only type bikes. However I dont live in a city so there isnt a huge need for them. The 1 cyclepath I do use into a city does seem to be in reasonable shape and not too bad in obstructions etc.

Around here, if you pay above the minimum wage you are going to be paying more than a lot of employers pay their staff.

I led teams of unemployed people working on projects such as improving public rights of way from about 2000 to 2015 and we did a lot of good work. But the idea was to pay a low wage so that participants did not get so comfortable in the role that they would not continue to look for a proper job.

There are problems. One is that the participants have a high turnover and therefore at any one time most will be new to the job, not experienced, and in need of a lot of supervision. Until they have been on expensive courses they cannot be handed some power tools or a knapsack sprayer. It is cheaper and a better use of public money to pay a professional team of longer term employees to do jobs they know well. Using unemployed people actually works out more expensive per km of verge strimmed or whatever.

With my own team I could have done more work with the same money if I had been able to actually properly employ a small number of the best motivated participants on a better wage. In other words, run it as a professional enterprise with real employees,

Thats a textbook example of our government trying to implement the idea I suggested. If I suggested colonising mars they would end up neutralising sheep in Wales.

I need to be more specific, working for benefits would be optional, and the amount of work done would be so that the amount you receive in benefits for said work would be at or above the living wagections etc.

That to my mind is commonly termed as have a job and earning a living and rightly so.

I'm not going to go into the EU debate here other than link to this:- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe
You mentioned high earners taxes rates check out where the UK stands on income tax and particularly higher earners tax rates.

The idea is to get the job done to a high standard by a competent workforce at a competitive rate,PWA has beaten me to it as to why an inexperienced workforce are inefficient.

Fair enough, I stand corre..........how the hell do you get a corpse to stand??

The point was simply that if you want a team of people to get loads of work done efficiently you don't want to borrow them from the ranks of the unemployed. I've tried it and it works out expensive. It is better to select particularly good candidates who have an aptitude for the work, employ them, then train them and build up their experience, send them on courses so they can use machinery, and get them to a point where they can get stuff done quickly and safely.

[reohn2]

.....how the hell do you get a corpse to stand??

You'll have to explain that one to me it's a little obtuse

[pwa]

I am in full agreement that cycle paths (all kinds) require maintenance, but I wonder if one problem is that bicycles are not so good at scrubbing mud and moss off track surfaces as car tyres are. A lot of the less used lanes have a grass strip down the middle but car and tractor tyres keep two strips of tarmac clear. On the same surface cycling and walking might make a single, narrow track.

I remember leading teams strimming the edges of a shared use path up the Garw Valley in South Wales and the high powered leaf blowers would actually lift the encroaching turf and moss on the track edges, restoring the width. It meant that if we didn't have a spare person with a shovel we could still restore the track width even though our primary job was just strimming the verge. That would not be appropriate on a roadside track, though, because stuff would fly in all directions and the number one concern with that sort of work is always the safety of those around you.

The leaf blower trick worked so long as the encroaching turf had not got too thick and established. So a quick pass once a year was enough to keep it in check.

[Vorpal]

I need to be more specific, working for benefits would be optional, and the amount of work done would be so that the amount you receive in benefits for said work would be at or above the living wagections etc.

That to my mind is commonly termed as have a job and earning a living and rightly so.

I'm not going to go into the EU debate here other than link to this:- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe
You mentioned high earners taxes rates check out where the UK stands on income tax and particularly higher earners tax rates.

The idea is to get the job done to a high standard by a competent workforce at a competitive rate,PWA has beaten me to it as to why an inexperienced workforce are inefficient.

I think that there can be some benefits to offering work in exchange for benefits:
-the people doing it obtain some work experience, and might find something that they like doing enough to obtain employment
-it gets a job done that might not otherwise get done

I think that if one considers the benefit as sunk cost (that is, it will be paid, independent of whether the recipient works), it is easier to see an economic benefit, as well. Under those circumstances, I don't think work force efficiency is the highest consideration.

However, it is a system that is easily open to abuse, and furthermore, looking for a job *is* a full time job. If the recipients of benefits are to become gainfully employed, they need to be given the skills and time for job hunting, and clearing growth from cycle paths, litter picking, and other low skilled jobs that they are likely to asked to do under these circumstances are not likely to improve their employment prospects. I'd rather they be given the opportunity to learn skills that can get them jobs.

Also, if local authorities come to depend upon 'free' labour, they have no incentive to get the people into work.

That said, I do think that being given some work like could benefit some folks who are long-term unemployed. But it must be handled on a case-by-case basis, wih protections in place to prevent abuse, such as oversight by an independent 3rd party.

[pwa]

It costs money to use unemployed people. Money beyond what they are paid. They need a supervisor who is trained to deal with their needs as starters. That supervisor will be someone who could be doing work themselves but is to some extent taken off that work to repeatedly walk up and down a line of unskilled people making sure they are keeping themselves and bystanders safe. Some will have been on expensive courses in the use of brushcutters or whatever, and newer starters will not have been on the courses and will be limited to hand tools only. They will all need training for work on roads. And in my experience, just as they are reaching the point of having received all the training they need they will get a job elsewhere that has no need for brushcutter skills or whatever and they are replaced by someone who has no training. You are constantly losing the only personnel who are productive. It is not a great way of providing job seekers with the skills they need and it is a more expensive way of getting paths tidied up. If the aim is to do the latter the cheapest way is to pay a small private outfit to do it.

[reohn2]

It costs money to use unemployed people. Money beyond what they are paid. They need a supervisor who is trained to deal with their needs as starters. That supervisor will be someone who could be doing work themselves but is to some extent taken off that work to repeatedly walk up and down a line of unskilled people making sure they are keeping themselves and bystanders safe. Some will have been on expensive courses in the use of brushcutters or whatever, and newer starters will not have been on the courses and will be limited to hand tools only. They will all need training for work on roads. And in my experience, just as they are reaching the point of having received all the training they need they will get a job elsewhere that has no need for brushcutter skills or whatever and they are replaced by someone who has no training. You are constantly losing the only personnel who are productive. It is not a great way of providing job seekers with the skills they need and it is a more expensive way of getting paths tidied up. If the aim is to do the latter the cheapest way is to pay a small private outfit to do it.

+1 to that.
However as part of their rehab and punishment prisoners could be trained up for such work such as paving,path laying,fencing,brush cutting,litter picking and graffiti removal,etc,etc.It would get them out of what for some must be a bone achingly boring existance in prison as well as training them up for work.
Of course such a system costs money and need qualified staff to man and supervise but it could do a lot of good.

[pwa]

It costs money to use unemployed people. Money beyond what they are paid. They need a supervisor who is trained to deal with their needs as starters. That supervisor will be someone who could be doing work themselves but is to some extent taken off that work to repeatedly walk up and down a line of unskilled people making sure they are keeping themselves and bystanders safe. Some will have been on expensive courses in the use of brushcutters or whatever, and newer starters will not have been on the courses and will be limited to hand tools only. They will all need training for work on roads. And in my experience, just as they are reaching the point of having received all the training they need they will get a job elsewhere that has no need for brushcutter skills or whatever and they are replaced by someone who has no training. You are constantly losing the only personnel who are productive. It is not a great way of providing job seekers with the skills they need and it is a more expensive way of getting paths tidied up. If the aim is to do the latter the cheapest way is to pay a small private outfit to do it.

+1 to that.
However as part of their rehab and punishment prisoners could be trained up for such work such as paving,path laying,fencing,brush cutting,litter picking and graffiti removal,etc,etc.It would get them out of what for some must be a bone achingly boring existance in prison as well as training them up for work.
Of course such a system costs money and need qualified staff to man and supervise but it could do a lot of good.

For a while a small part of my job was to take prisoners on day release to do jobs for the community. Just one at a time. A couple of them were excellent people to work with. And although it isn't a very fast way of getting through work it can be justified as investing in people. One lad I worked with had been put away for drugs and firearms offences, but on his release he became involved in helping others stay out of trouble. I liked him and I admired him. I put him with a team of volunteers from the Ramblers and they liked him too.

[Nigel]

The same here, many cycleways are still covered with grit put down during the snow weeks ago
It would be easy to sweep it up to re-use next winter
Maybe there is no overtime budget left after the snow
The motor roads are perfectly clear of course

In Norway, they gather up the gravel that they spead in winter. I believe it's reused, but I don't know how it's managed. .....

That might be related to the amount of gravel that can be put on a road in a very short time. A couple of years ago, whilst on a bus in Norway heading for a ski tour, the bus pulled up beside a long line of vehicles fitting chains in a blizzard. Being Norway, with a scheduled bus timetable to keep to, the bus was waved to front of queue, and set off, escorted by two snow ploughs front and rear, up the hill to the high pass. In the course of about 10-15 minutes, a very large tipper body on the back of the lead plough tipped its load of gravel (perhaps 4 to 6 tonnes) on the road for one bus. If that's repeated a few times, its an awfully large amount of gravel on just one hill.

[Cyril Haearn]

The same here, many cycleways are still covered with grit put down during the snow weeks ago
It would be easy to sweep it up to re-use next winter
Maybe there is no overtime budget left after the snow
The motor roads are perfectly clear of course

In Norway, they gather up the gravel that they spead in winter. I believe it's reused, but I don't know how it's managed. .....

That might be related to the amount of gravel that can be put on a road in a very short time. A couple of years ago, whilst on a bus in Norway heading for a ski tour, the bus pulled up beside a long line of vehicles fitting chains in a blizzard. Being Norway, with a scheduled bus timetable to keep to, the bus was waved to front of queue
..
.. .

Positive thread alert, +1
Is Norway the new Germany?

[Vorpal]

The same here, many cycleways are still covered with grit put down during the snow weeks ago
It would be easy to sweep it up to re-use next winter
Maybe there is no overtime budget left after the snow
The motor roads are perfectly clear of course

In Norway, they gather up the gravel that they spead in winter. I believe it's reused, but I don't know how it's managed. .....

That might be related to the amount of gravel that can be put on a road in a very short time. A couple of years ago, whilst on a bus in Norway heading for a ski tour, the bus pulled up beside a long line of vehicles fitting chains in a blizzard. Being Norway, with a scheduled bus timetable to keep to, the bus was waved to front of queue, and set off, escorted by two snow ploughs front and rear, up the hill to the high pass. In the course of about 10-15 minutes, a very large tipper body on the back of the lead plough tipped its load of gravel (perhaps 4 to 6 tonnes) on the road for one bus. If that's repeated a few times, its an awfully large amount of gravel on just one hill.

That would be unusual where I live, but over the course of a winter, quite a lot of gravel is spread.

Where Ilive, the buses aren't particularly timely, especially at peak times. Trains run pretty well to time, though.

[plantfit]

We have an excellent shared cycle/footpath between the villages of Carlton le Moorland and Bassingham in Lincolnshire,it's used by walkers.joggers,dog walkers,cyclists and mobility scooter users and children however this is a regular problem with it



Either ride/walk through muddy grass or get on the road,there really is no excuse for this type of irresponsible parking

[mjr]

Either ride/walk through muddy grass or get on the road,there really is no excuse for this type of irresponsible parking

It's a problem. I've heard of cyclists "accidentally" "crashing" into such illegally-parked vehicles and losing potatoes from their shopping up the exhaust pipes!

More officially, report it to the local parking enforcers. Less officially, also give it https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOKE-FAKE-PR ... 1533068201