Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Should the cops stop drivers + cyclists who ignore STOP signs and give them a brief talking to?

Yes
8
24%
Yes, stop means stop
19
56%
Yes, drivers must be taught to read
3
9%
No
0
No votes
No, crawling over the line is ok
0
No votes
No need to stop, despite the law
1
3%
No, they have better things to do
3
9%
Dont matter,signs are unnecessary
0
No votes
No, the signs were put up for fun,1.4!
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 34

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 Apr 2018, 3:37pm

One practices an emergency stop in the test but it should very rarely be necessary
I always leave plenty of room so that if the audi driver in front suddenly stops I can do so with reserve

Modern vehicles, audis, 'sportscars' have powerful brakes so they can stop faster than normal vehicles, how many 'accidents' have they caused?
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thirdcrank
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Apr 2018, 4:37pm

For the avoidance of doubt, I was the one driving the Audi. I've posted before I bought myself one as a 70th birthday present. Same person doing the driving as when it was a Renault Fourgon van - disparagingly known in family circles as the white chugger to differentiate it from the brown chugger Renault 4CV which replaced it. FWIW, the Audi is known as the white elephant.

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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Apr 2018, 4:48pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:One practices an emergency stop in the test but it should very rarely be necessary
I always leave plenty of room so that if the audi driver in front suddenly stops I can do so with reserve

Modern vehicles, audis, 'sportscars' have powerful brakes so they can stop faster than normal vehicles, how many 'accidents' have they caused?

Tyre and brake technology for ALL cars has moved on a long way, so that even though they weigh significantly more than their predecessors, they stop much more quickly, and well in advance of the Highway Code's guidelines.

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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 Apr 2018, 5:03pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:One practices an emergency stop in the test but it should very rarely be necessary
I always leave plenty of room so that if the audi driver in front suddenly stops I can do so with reserve

Modern vehicles, audis, 'sportscars' have powerful brakes so they can stop faster than normal vehicles, how many 'accidents' have they caused?

Tyre and brake technology for ALL cars has moved on a long way, so that even though they weigh significantly more than their predecessors, they stop much more quickly, and well in advance of the Highway Code's guidelines.

My vehicle has drums at the back
A lifestyle tank with big discs all round has much more stop as well as much more go, one reason why I keep a good distance when following, I don't try to bully others into going faster :wink: :?
That was an attempt at humour/irony %=)
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Apr 2018, 5:43pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:One practices an emergency stop in the test but it should very rarely be necessary
I always leave plenty of room so that if the audi driver in front suddenly stops I can do so with reserve

Modern vehicles, audis, 'sportscars' have powerful brakes so they can stop faster than normal vehicles, how many 'accidents' have they caused?

Tyre and brake technology for ALL cars has moved on a long way, so that even though they weigh significantly more than their predecessors, they stop much more quickly, and well in advance of the Highway Code's guidelines.

My vehicle has drums at the back
A lifestyle tank with big discs all round has much more stop as well as much more go, one reason why I keep a good distance when following, I don't try to bully others into going faster :wink: :?
That was an attempt at humour/irony %=)

Ah, missed that.

Depending on the car, then up to c70% of the braking force is on the front axle due to weight transferral. Drums are perfectly adequate on the rear of vehicles to which they are fitted btw. Not as much more stop as you might think, in extremis, I suspect. Avoirdupois, innit?

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Cunobelin
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Cunobelin » 14 Apr 2018, 6:43pm

It is one of the great questions that the speedophiles fail to answer


We have the best modulated brakes in History, we have systems that stop brakes locking, we have the most effective brakes in history, we have tyres that have more grip and safer treads than ever in History


Yet every set of lights, junction or other area where you can expect to stop has to have a high friction braking surface for 50 yards because without it people are unable to stop

Image

pwa
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby pwa » 14 Apr 2018, 6:55pm

Cunobelin wrote:It is one of the great questions that the speedophiles fail to answer


We have the best modulated brakes in History, we have systems that stop brakes locking, we have the most effective brakes in history, we have tyres that have more grip and safer treads than ever in History


Yet every set of lights, junction or other area where you can expect to stop has to have a high friction braking surface for 50 yards because without it people are unable to stop

Image


Perhaps just round your way. I've not seen that in this area.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Cunobelin » 14 Apr 2018, 10:14pm

pwa wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:It is one of the great questions that the speedophiles fail to answer


We have the best modulated brakes in History, we have systems that stop brakes locking, we have the most effective brakes in history, we have tyres that have more grip and safer treads than ever in History


Yet every set of lights, junction or other area where you can expect to stop has to have a high friction braking surface for 50 yards because without it people are unable to stop

Image


Perhaps just round your way. I've not seen that in this area.



Must be very lucky then. I travel extensively and see these everywhere

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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Cyril Haearn » 15 Apr 2018, 5:53am

Lucky? Maybe they are present but not marked, that could be better
Are not cycle lanes red sometimes?
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Cyril Haearn » 15 Apr 2018, 6:46am

pwa wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Slowing down for bullies:
I drive carefully, maybe 20% under the maximum limit, through the industrial estate where I work because I often see tricky situations there, enormous car transporters maneuvering, illegal parking, plenty of idiots going too fast
This morning a WVM followed me closely into the estate, bright lights dazzling in my mirrors. A hint with the brake lights was of course ignored, it stuck to my tail clearly much too close, maybe 2m behind, so I stopped to let it by. It had to pause for a moment, passed me, and 50m later turned off to make a delivery. Delay: 5-10 seconds?
If I had accelerated to the maximum speed limit it would have kept close behind me, that would have been crazy by me, right?
The ***** cost me a few seconds too by forcing me to let him by

I would (not) like to know what swear-words the WVM directed at me :wink:


You of course decide for yourself what the safe speed is in the situation in which you find yourself, and if that means someone else has to wait, so be it. It is only if you slow someone down to a speed lower than the safe speed that you should start considering the work schedule of the person behind. And only if they are not tailgating you. Fair?

What is the 'safe speed', maximum limit minus x%?
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Cunobelin
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Cunobelin » 15 Apr 2018, 7:07am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
pwa wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Slowing down for bullies:
I drive carefully, maybe 20% under the maximum limit, through the industrial estate where I work because I often see tricky situations there, enormous car transporters maneuvering, illegal parking, plenty of idiots going too fast
This morning a WVM followed me closely into the estate, bright lights dazzling in my mirrors. A hint with the brake lights was of course ignored, it stuck to my tail clearly much too close, maybe 2m behind, so I stopped to let it by. It had to pause for a moment, passed me, and 50m later turned off to make a delivery. Delay: 5-10 seconds?
If I had accelerated to the maximum speed limit it would have kept close behind me, that would have been crazy by me, right?
The ***** cost me a few seconds too by forcing me to let him by

I would (not) like to know what swear-words the WVM directed at me :wink:


You of course decide for yourself what the safe speed is in the situation in which you find yourself, and if that means someone else has to wait, so be it. It is only if you slow someone down to a speed lower than the safe speed that you should start considering the work schedule of the person behind. And only if they are not tailgating you. Fair?

What is the 'safe speed', maximum limit minus x%?



10% + 2

That is the calculation sued by ACPO to decide whether the offence is to be dealt with by a Magistrate as opposed to a simpler fine / education

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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Cyril Haearn » 15 Apr 2018, 7:20am

Cunobelin wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
pwa wrote:
You of course decide for yourself what the safe speed is in the situation in which you find yourself, and if that means someone else has to wait, so be it. It is only if you slow someone down to a speed lower than the safe speed that you should start considering the work schedule of the person behind. And only if they are not tailgating you. Fair?

What is the 'safe speed', maximum limit minus x%?



10% + 2

That is the calculation sued by ACPO to decide whether the offence is to be dealt with by a Magistrate as opposed to a simpler fine / education

'education' the song by Hall + Oates, 'adult education' springs to mind :o

No, here I mean, is there a formula for a 'safe speed' (term used by pwa)? 50 kmh through the industrial estate is obviously too fast
Maximum limit minus xyz%?
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby pwa » 15 Apr 2018, 8:04am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
pwa wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Slowing down for bullies:
I drive carefully, maybe 20% under the maximum limit, through the industrial estate where I work because I often see tricky situations there, enormous car transporters maneuvering, illegal parking, plenty of idiots going too fast
This morning a WVM followed me closely into the estate, bright lights dazzling in my mirrors. A hint with the brake lights was of course ignored, it stuck to my tail clearly much too close, maybe 2m behind, so I stopped to let it by. It had to pause for a moment, passed me, and 50m later turned off to make a delivery. Delay: 5-10 seconds?
If I had accelerated to the maximum speed limit it would have kept close behind me, that would have been crazy by me, right?
The ***** cost me a few seconds too by forcing me to let him by

I would (not) like to know what swear-words the WVM directed at me :wink:


You of course decide for yourself what the safe speed is in the situation in which you find yourself, and if that means someone else has to wait, so be it. It is only if you slow someone down to a speed lower than the safe speed that you should start considering the work schedule of the person behind. And only if they are not tailgating you. Fair?

What is the 'safe speed', maximum limit minus x%?


No. It depends on the conditions you find on the road. Pedestrians looking like they want to cross, loads of parked cars, or none of those and just a clear road with no hazards? The safe speed could be the limit speed, or it could be considerably less. It could be zero and sometimes is.

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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Bonefishblues » 15 Apr 2018, 8:58am

pwa wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
pwa wrote:
You of course decide for yourself what the safe speed is in the situation in which you find yourself, and if that means someone else has to wait, so be it. It is only if you slow someone down to a speed lower than the safe speed that you should start considering the work schedule of the person behind. And only if they are not tailgating you. Fair?

What is the 'safe speed', maximum limit minus x%?


No. It depends on the conditions you find on the road. Pedestrians looking like they want to cross, loads of parked cars, or none of those and just a clear road with no hazards? The safe speed could be the limit speed, or it could be considerably less. It could be zero and sometimes is.

This. The speed limit is the only absolute. Within this, one should judge the above factors to determine one's speed at any given moment.
Last edited by Bonefishblues on 22 Apr 2018, 9:08am, edited 1 time in total.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Broken windows policy - STOP signs!

Postby Cyril Haearn » 18 Apr 2018, 5:23am

Talking about persuading, advising, bullying..
Maybe the cops could learn something from parliamentary whips who are very good at persuading, convincing, winning people, getting them to do something or not do something
What methods or sanctions do their whips have?
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