kwackers wrote:Tangled Metal wrote:Last year in the Netherlands I noticed that cyclists on cycle paths were not all considerate to other users. Not all of those were elderly or ebike riders.
Me too.
My overall impression of the Netherlands is it isn't quite the cycling nirvana it's made out to be - albeit my experience is predominantly limited to a couple of cities.
(I also didn't see that many e-bikes, they were around sure, but as a proportion I see more scooting around Liverpool)
eBikes are here, I use one and it's great.
My mileage is up from 1-2000 or so a year to 10,000. Since the chance of dying is measured per mile there's a much greater chance I'll be killed riding an eBike than my normal bike - and it won't be long before I'm over 60!
Guess I'll just be another bleedin' pensioner riding an eBike they can't control...
I've been saying this over and over, I even went to the trouble of trying to do it by the numbers a while back comparing distance travelled by those who actually cycle (not by per million population because it turns out UK is 'safer' than NL for cycling by that measure which is why the EU road safety commission use it as a tool to push for wider cycle helmet use
) and taking into account that NL has massively more segregated, indeed effective segregated cycle lanes so that the people actually use it such that cyclists on roads with motorised traffic is limited comparative to the UK. Then you add in the 'safety in numbers' mantra espoused by CUK and many others which frankly whilst in theory should and to an extent it does work, it levels off when you actually remove those from the highway, from that which poses the greatest threat, such that you then get an increase in deaths when you have many people travelling closely together at differing speeds, and another reason why many segregated lanes are not sufficient for mass cycling. just look at how the Danes do away with segregation in Copenhagen and cyclists just use the existing infra, that being the road so they can cycle 5/6 abreast in one direction (see photo below)
Now whilst segregation has its benefits, what it fails to address is that motorists are not used to having cyclists on the roads as much as they are in the UK, not all places in NL have segregated lanes and of course you have the sporting cyclists. You also have many crossings of roads in front of motors that you simply would not have if you were simply on the road, this is a major problem for NL as there are circa 60 deaths annually where cycling infra crosses a road.
Then as I said on page one, you have those of the older generation who used to cycle by ordinary bike now using an electric bike and able to go much faster than their natural capabilities, this in turn means shortened time to react, longer braking times and that increase in risk taking which comes with speed especially that which you do not have to achieve using your own power, basically it replicates moped/motorbike users in the 'freedom' it gives. Yes it's a lower speed but it's all relative to what they were capable of beforehand under their own steam.
Now that the younger generation are buying into e-bike use this then becomes even more of an issue. The only thing that is stopping many of the younger age groups from using e-bikes as transport is money. A significant proportion of NL cyclists have become complacent and even blase about safety of themselves and amongst others, this comes in part from being segregated.
Whilst it's far better to have people on bikes than in large motor vehicles and I have no qualms about people using e-bikes to get them to their destination for whatever reason that is, too many are simply being human beings, that being selfish/I'm alright jack and think less about safety when you're hidden away from that which you perceive will harm you (motorists), it also increases when speed increases from an external power source due to the psychological effect this has.
Ignoring the problem of the decreased safety of e-bike users (and those around them) either through greater maximum speed or a combination of change in psyche of using them compared to a self propelled bike particularly when the greater number of sales are to age groups who for the most part may not have cycled much in recent times or for the most part cycled but at a much reduced speed, is both dumb and irresponsible.
it not only starts to paint cycling in a different way to how it was and thus is seen in a more negative light, you also have some who are not satisfied with the 16mph top speed and want more. Speed models are essentially motorbikes/mopeds without the weight and that yet again changes the psyche of the user, they're now capable of 30mph and due to wearing a helmet induces greater risk taking and yet somehow it's a 'bike' because it has pedals, yet presents similar characteristics in use and rider attitude around built up areas which as we know has a much heightened chance of becoming an organ donor or hurting others.
There has to be much, much more looked into e-bikes than simply saying anyone can get on it and go at x speed but also more needs to be looked at in terms of cycling infrastructure and how this effects the psyche both short term and long term of the user. This is in part why I'm not a believer that segregated infra is the panacea it's made out to be as IMHO It's flawed in many ways.
Personally I think reducing the top powered speed to 12mph in exchange for a greater range is something that really should be done asap, why does it need to be any higher as an assist mode?
