Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

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Cyril Haearn
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Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

Post by Cyril Haearn »

The Guardian reports that 206 cyclists died in 'accidents' last year in NL, and 201 PiCs
Old males on e-bikes are especially problematic
Prejudice alarm? :wink:
One imagines many of them find themselves going too fast, or they are unable to mount and dismount, maybe some really should stay at home. Or upgrade to a trike with low gears and NO MOTOR

Weasel words from the Fietserbond: 'of course one dead person is one too many. But..' :(
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

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Cyril Haearn wrote:Weasel words from the Fietserbond: 'of course one dead person is one too many. But..' :(


Why "weasel words"?
eBike take-up is a Good Thing as it keeps people active for longer, bringing a net gain in life and quality of life. But it would indeed be better if you could get that with fewer casualties.

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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

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Are mounting/dismounting falls recorded as road casualties in NL but not in UK?
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

Post by The utility cyclist »

Cyril Haearn wrote:The Guardian reports that 206 cyclists died in 'accidents' last year in NL, and 201 PiCs
Old males on e-bikes are especially problematic
Prejudice alarm? :wink:
One imagines many of them find themselves going too fast, or they are unable to mount and dismount, maybe some really should stay at home. Or upgrade to a trike with low gears and NO MOTOR

Weasel words from the Fietserbond: 'of course one dead person is one too many. But..' :(

One only has to look at the huge increase in deaths of older people comparative to the decrease in all the other age groups (from 2006 to 2016) to understand how e-bikes have had a negative effect on safety. Use of e-bikes in the over 60s groups is well over 50% in the last couple of years and it's this that has meant those groups with very high e-bike use are not just bucking the downward trend in reduced deaths but actually going in the complete opposite direction!
Everyone keeps ignoring the problem including the ECF but it's there staring everyone in the face and this yet again jump in deaths highlights how e-bikes whilst resolving some problems and allowing greater mobility is actually not being taken seriously enough with respect to safety. I've already said last year that a near 16mph top speed solely on electric use is too high, particularly when the vast majority of older users will not have gone so fast for many, many years and indeed those freshly back onto 'bikes' simply do not have the judgement necessary, one tends to go at a speed natural to ones physical ability, you artificially increase that and you have what happens in the motoring world though to a much lesser degree of overall damage of course.
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

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E-bikes are not bikes IMHO
Old/frail people can use trikes and go as slow as they like
Anything that reduces speed is welcome
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

Post by pjclinch »

Cyril Haearn wrote:E-bikes are not bikes IMHO

If you like, but they're there and they're getting used and defining them out of existence as Not Proper Bikes won't alter that. Like most tools they have plusses and minuses and you have to balance these.

Cyril Haearn wrote:Old/frail people can use trikes and go as slow as they like
Anything that reduces speed is welcome


Trikes are far more awkward to store and manhandle. Especially in a city, this might be a significant factor.
And it's not all about speed. if you only have so much personal oomph then that will limit your radius of action, and giving you an extra wheel (including extra drag and weight) isn't going to help.
And if you have a longish ride through the countryside on relatively empty fietspads slowing you down could just increase your exposure to mishaps by forcing you to take longer.

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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

Post by RickH »

If there is an increase in older people cycling, isn't a proportion of the deaths going to simply be from them dropping dead? Which they probably would have anyway even if they hadn't been cycling.
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

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RickH wrote:If there is an increase in older people cycling, isn't a proportion of the deaths going to simply be from them dropping dead? Which they probably would have anyway even if they hadn't been cycling.

In the UK, people dropping dead while cycling and then crashing aren't counted as road casualties. I don't know whether they classify them the same in the Netherlands.
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

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Does anybody have any idea to what extent speed e-bikes (45 kph) might be complicating things?
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

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Wanlock Dod wrote:Does anybody have any idea to what extent speed e-bikes (45 kph) might be complicating things?


Considering there were 38 total deaths involving e-bike riders, probably not much.

Also, most cyclist deaths are still caused by motor vehicles.
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

Post by pete75 »

How many are being killed in collisions with the large number of small motorcycles and scooters being ridden on Dutch cycle paths?
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

Post by landsurfer »

Cyril Haearn wrote:E-bikes are not bikes IMHO
Old/frail people can use trikes and go as slow as they like
Anything that reduces speed is welcome

They are electric mopeds ... Nice mopeds .. But mopeds.
My wife has one and loves it ... Reminds her if her Henry Honda of the 70's...
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

Post by Mark R »

Ebikes are only mopeds when the rider doesn't bother to put in any effort on the pedals.

If you are prepared to put in a reasonable amount of effort, you have what is IMO the ultimate hybrid vehicle.

They are only 'not bikes' if you regard cycling as a sporting activity rather than as a practical mode of transport.

I'm sceptical of the claim that ebikes are causing big increases in casualties. When I lived in Nederland 20 or so years ago, plenty of elderly folk had bikes with a stinky 2 stroke engine assistingImage

Hopefully ebikes have made these stinking contraptions totally obsolete but I don't see why they would be any more dangerous....
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Re: Guardian: Nederland, more dead cyclists than motorists, e-bikes

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Seems more complicated than one might have thought :wink:

Maybe pjclinch could report back after visiting

I used the phrase 'weasel words' because I am sick of reading such phrases
I think the authorities should roll their sleeves up to reduce KSI by 50% this year, next year..
I am sick of soft talk about vision zero too
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