Speed monitors

[Cugel]

Or are they prefects?

Here is an article about people using a speed gun, with police encouragement, to report drivers speeding through their suburban streets. The penalty is just a mild letter of admonition from the rozzers to say, "Gonnae no dae that. Just gonnae no". It's said to have an effect, as those tending to Toadism feel a pink shame creep across their face; and there are plans to increase the procedure across more communities; and to join up the results so that a Toad speeding through Dagenham one day then Newcastle the next will see his naughtiness accumulate, along with the interest of the rozzers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43841859

Toads of some varieties will, of course, condemn this as vigilante or Stasi stuff. Personally I feel that the best chance of reducing speeding and the associated death and maiming is to use precisely such community-engendered shaming of the anti-social me-my-Is going about in a potentially lethal fashion for no reason other than their primitive do-violence urges displaced to the heavy pressing of the accelerator pedal and the thrusting of their tin merkin at all & sundry.

Wot u fink?

Cugel

[Mick F]

Usually, it's the local people breaking the speed limits.
Over-familiarity of the road.

There are two of us who have volunteered to do Community Speedwatch, and despite calls for others to join us, no-one else has come forward.
Unless the police have a group of six, they won't do it.

[pwa]

I've nothing against it in principle. And if I got a letter saying I'd been speeding somewhere I would take it seriously and factor it in to my driving, certainly on the specific bit of road concerned. Others might not react so positively, but if it works on some drivers it might be a good thing.

It is my impression that on the main road through our village the people who speed by the biggest margin are not from the village. They are boy racer types and, on sunny weekends, groups of motorcyclists.

[Mick F]

It is my impression that on the main road through our village the people who speed by the biggest margin are not from the village. They are boy racer types and, on sunny weekends, groups of motorcyclists.

Yes, but they probably aren't tourists or people not from your area. They will be more than likely people who have been through the village on a number of occasions.

Here in Gunnislake, the A390 between Tavistock and the west, is a through route for commuters and delivery drivers. We get tourists and visitors, but they are few and far between out of season, but the speeders still come through .............. and some of them I know personally.

[661-Pete]

I quite like the robotic speed-indicators, the so-called pedagogiques as they call them in France (where there are a lot more of the things than in UK). No ticket, no penalty, just a gentle admonition. They flash in red if you're over the limit, in green if you're within it. Sometimes a proper speed camera, which can issue penalties, follows a few hundred metres further on...

OK, I admit it. I've now and again (in my car) brought up a 'red' indication on one of these devices - a stern warning to drop my speed, usually as I'm approaching a built-up area. Yes, I may be a bit over the top as I pass the first town name sign bordered in red (which means 50 Km/h). I reckon that the pedagogiques are not very accurate (I hope the official speed cameras are!) seeing as they often indicate a speed higher than what my speedo indicates (which would render my speedo illegal). But they serve a purpose.

If, on the other hand, human monitors are at work in a town or village, I don't see why that should be a problem. We all know there aren't enough police to go around.

[Pastychomper]

I can imagine a few motons treating the letter as a trophy, on the other hand I can imagine several boy racers being reminded that their behaviour is noted and they don't live in a vacuum. On the whole I suspect the balance would be towards people reducing their speed, as it seems to be with the speed indicators, so it would be a good thing.

Years ago I worked on a site that installed a speed indicator to remind people of a 20mph limit. I treated it as a target, and rejoiced if I could gain enough speed to set it off on the short trip from the bike park. I don't think I'd have done that on a public road though.

[thirdcrank]

What is the problem being tackled here?

Does this response offer a real solution?

[Psamathe]

....
Does this response offer a real solution?

I wonder about this aspect. Does it actually point out to the offender that there is no Police enforcement so worst that happens is a letter that has no teeth. Is it more of a statement that "we've recorded you breaking the law and are confirming in writing that we can do nothing about it ...".

I'm not against the scheme but wonder about potential unintended consequences.

Ian

[De Sisti]

....
Does this response offer a real solution?

I wonder about this aspect. Does it actually point out to the offender that there is no Police enforcement so worst that happens is a letter that has no teeth. Is it more of a statement that "we've recorded you breaking the law and are confirming in writing that we can do nothing about it ...".

I'm not against the scheme but wonder about potential unintended consequences.

Ian

I seem to remember that if the offence happens for a second time, a more stern letter is sent out.
For a third offence, an Officer of the Law will visit the individual to talk about the speeding behaviour.

[Tangled Metal]

In my youth I used to ride a section of country road with a 30mph limit at 58mph. I used to joke with family and friends about wanting a speed ticket at twice the speed limit having been done while on my bike. I said a few times it would be framed and on my wall.

Right now I am ashamed of my younger self. I shouldn't have boasted but I'd still be inwardly pleased with the ticket.

Just to clarify the situation, it was a stretch of road which didn't seem to qualify for a reduced speed limit. Country Lane with no side turns and very few houses. Cars also did similar speeds on that stretch. I know because I could barely catch up to them! A few mph slower I guessed. Still not good.

So it's not just motons who have this mentality. I had it when I didn't know better. Well I did but late teens / early 20s you're still a bit stupid and irresponsible.

[thirdcrank]

... I seem to remember that if the offence happens for a second time, a more stern letter is sent out.
For a third offence, an Officer of the Law will visit the individual to talk about the speeding behaviour.

The music hall comedy singer, Billy Merson, used to do a number including a line something like "I took one leap and put my tongue out at him, I can't help it I'm so frightful when I'm riled."

I only know this because I used to have two scratchy 78rpm records, bought for 6d each in Castleford open air market in the 1950's. Unfortunately, youtube has failed me here.

This is just a rambling way of saying that repeated warnings can reinforce the feeling that they can't touch you for it, which in the circumstances we are discussing seems to be pretty much the case.
=======================================================================
PS I've found the words to I'm so spiteful: the format seems familiar so I may have linked to it before to make this point elsewhere.

http://monologues.co.uk/musichall/Songs ... iteful.htm

[pwa]

I believe the personal touch of community members putting in the time and effort to tackle the problem does prick the conscience of some people, showing them that it is the community that is affected by the negative consequences of irresponsible road use, and it is the community that wish to see drivers going slower, rather than the police.

[Mick F]

Usually, it's the local people breaking the speed limits.
Over-familiarity of the road.

Case in point this morning cycling down into Horrabridge on the A386. 30mph limit.
Note the double white lines.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.50585 ... 312!8i6656
I was freewheeling down the hill at circa 30mph and was overtaken at speed by a car. As I said, note the double white lines.
I caught him up just as he was turning in here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.50705 ... 312!8i6656
He was a local driver.
Must've been doing 40mph+ plus overtaking a bicycle doing more than 10mph on double white lines.
Highway Code Rule 129
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26

[thirdcrank]

... it is the community that wish to see drivers going slower, rather than the police.

That does raise some interesting points. I asked "What is the problem being tackled here?" and if the answer is "complaining residents" then lending them a speed detection gun and a yellow jacket may stop them complaining. But that seems to assume that speeding isn't a problem in itself.

I can't see what a scheme like this - or schemes, because there seem to be different versions - do to tackle speeding, especially the worst kind. A common feature seems to be that the police will not use the evidence obtained to take any other action but a warning letter, although I'm only basing that on what I've read. I've no problem at all with advice, warnings and cautions and I've dished out plenty myself, but IMO, to have much effect they really need to be backed by the knowledge that they are an alternative to prosecution.

What happens if one of these volunteers detects a big speeder, say 60 in a 30? Is it still a only letter? It may be argued that in the absence of this scheme the offence would go completely undetected, but that rather misses the point. The word soon gets round that they can't touch you for it, just bringing the law further into disrepute. Different local schemes just add to the confusion.

As the police service as a whole is gradually transformed into a detective body rather than one prioritising prevention, traffic policing has shrunk. This goes a bit deeper than transferring people from one role to another. Quite a lot of experienced detectives consider that dealing with offences like speeding alienates the part of society which traditionally has been considered to support the police. This has been reinforced by the "cash cow" campaign to characterise speed cameras as an income stream.

IMO, this also shows how the elected Police and Crime Commissioners make little contribution to local democracy: if the residents of Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh want action over local speeding, they'll get little comfort from their PCC.

IMO, this is one more area of enforcement which highway authorities should have the power to undertake. I'm not talking about patrol cars but the use of technology. Local councillors are very attentive to local feeling. This means that they are terrified of restrictions on residents' parking, but have no problem with people passing through being nicked. And the "cash cow" jibe wouldn't faze them one little bit.

[Vorpal]

The community speed watch (or whatever they are called in your area) report speeding incidents to the police. Different police have different local guidance, but in general, the send the registered owner of the vehicle a warning letter. Excessive speed on more than two occasions will initiate some action by the police. Some police departments' guidance says 'targetted enforcement', others pay the registered owner a visit. Cambridgeshire have all of the associated documentation, including form letters on-line, so you can see what they do... http://speedwatch.info/Speedwatch%20Gui ... 202017.pdf

Targetted enforcement in Essex usually means that the police use the community speed watch area for mobile cameras.