Continental-style traffic light junctions

[Cyril Haearn]

zebra crossings - where pedestrians' freedom to cross is restricted only by their bravery - with various light-controlled versions, which rarely stop traffic on pedestrian demand.

It's really Hobson's choice, isn't it?
Zebra: the brave can cross any time but the meek must wait till some kind-hearted motorist takes pity on them.
Pelican (puffin etc): the meek and the mild get equal chances but all must defer to the motorists.

Often the best way is to wait for a gap, do not trust motons to stop, apply the handbrake and engage neutral
Waiting for a gap works in many (most?) places at most (many?) times

[StephenW]

The history of traffic engineering in the UK has been based on paint in the form of GIVE WAY lines wherever possible.

Are you saying that fewer junctions in the UK are signalised than elsewhere? Compared to the USA that may well be so, but I'm not sure if there is any big difference compared to continental Europe. It's my understanding that there is currently a tendency in the Netherlands to replace traffic lights with roundabouts where possible.

I detect little genuine belief among policymakers that cycling presents a viable alternative. Until that fundamental situation changes, the layout and phasing of traffic lights seems academic.

The British Cycling campaign "Turning the Corner" is actively trying to have the "continental-style" kind of junction introduced. Therefore, I think it's legitimate to discuss whether that is a good aim. I do take your point. Nevetheless, I think if you are trying to effect change, you need to have an aim. And if you have an aim, you need to know if it is a good aim.

[StephenW]

One limitation is that that long wait will require a substantial reservoir for cyclists to wait to be allowed to cross. Only very large junctions are likely to have the space. Ideally these should have over/underpasses of good standard.
For more "common or garden" junctions the continental design saves time for everybody.

Do you mean that the simultaneous green junction takes up more space than a junction with no cycle specific infrastructure, or more space than one with cycleways, allowing conflicts between cycles and turning cars?

This highway engineer considers what a simultaneous green junction would look like in a typical real UK location:

http://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/ ... ating.html