Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

StephenW
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby StephenW » 16 Jul 2018, 8:51pm

Vorpal asked:
What are cycle spaces, and where do Tandem and Trailer go?


I think it would be good if a standard bicycle were defined. If the standard bicycle doesn't fit easily in all the cycle spaces, they are not cycle spaces. The standard bicycle should be large - I suggest the largest-framed men's roadster commonly available, with the seat and handlebars as high as they go.

I'm ambivalent about whether the bikes hang vertically from hooks or are supported horizontally. The key points to me are consistency and that a large adult bicycle fits easily.


If trailers can be detached and in some way folded or dismantled such that they are the size of a large suitcase, no special provision is needed. Otherwise, a bike+trailer could be considered as a tandem.

I think that solo cycles should be carried on every train (although on peak-time commuting trains there would only be a small number of spaces, which must be paid for). Although it would be nice, it is not so important to me that tandems be carried on every train. Instead, I think that it should be possible to get from any GB station to any other one with a tandem, although this might require taking a slower route or travelling at certain times of day.

Vorpal
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Vorpal » 17 Jul 2018, 7:48am

StephenW wrote:Vorpal asked:
What are cycle spaces, and where do Tandem and Trailer go?


I think it would be good if a standard bicycle were defined. If the standard bicycle doesn't fit easily in all the cycle spaces, they are not cycle spaces. The standard bicycle should be large - I suggest the largest-framed men's roadster commonly available, with the seat and handlebars as high as they go.

By implication, families whose children are not yet cycling independently, many disabled cyclists, and people who use trikes or recumbents don't have the same rights of access as those who ride a standard upright.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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StephenW
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby StephenW » 17 Jul 2018, 9:47pm

I sometimes take my SWB recumbent on the train. It fits OK in a standard bike space. A LWB recumbent would be a different matter - it would be classed as a tandem in my view. I think that a maximum length should be defined for a "standard bicycle", and anything longer than this is classed as a tandem.

Quite a lot of recumbent trikes are foldable.

Tag-along bikes, if they can easily be detached, could be classed as two standard bicycles. Otherwise they would count as one tandem. Trailers, if they can be detached and folded such that they fit in luggage racks, just count as normal luggage. Otherwise, bike+trailer=one tandem.

I think that family cycling trips are unlikely to be taking place at peak commuting time, and perhaps time is not of the essence on these types of trips. Therefore, I think that the kind of restrictions on tandems and tandem-equivalents which I am talking about may not be such a big drawback in practice.

atoz
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby atoz » 24 Jul 2018, 5:24pm

Just been looking through the new Cycle mag. Under Letters there has appeared one on bikes and trains. None, of course on why Cycling Uk aren't mounting a highly visible campaign on the issue. And no mention of this thread in the piece on the Cycle UK forum. To be sure I've no problem with the other subject it covers- but some mention of the fact that this has been an active thread would be good.

The silence is deafening. Based on this and the lack of noticeable action on Cycling UK's part over some time, I can only conclude that we can't have too much faith in our national cycling organisation on this one. Is it political pressure, poor morale, or just plain apathy?

brynpoeth
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby brynpoeth » 24 Jul 2018, 5:31pm

Maybe it is logical* and who knows, there may have even been some market research
*One imagines that drive-cycling tragically is much more popular than taking bikes on trains, is cuk logically not giving much attention to a small minority?

Speculation of course, for once :wink:
Alternative facts welcome
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott.. Alternative facts welcome

atoz
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby atoz » 6 Aug 2018, 11:51am

brynpoeth wrote:Maybe it is logical* and who knows, there may have even been some market research
*One imagines that drive-cycling tragically is much more popular than taking bikes on trains, is cuk logically not giving much attention to a small minority?

Speculation of course, for once :wink:
Alternative facts welcome


I wonder how small the minority really is. And maybe it's small precisely because of the problems taking bikes on trains, which didn't use to be the case. Acccording to that. Cycling UK have the same approach to this subject that a lot of people have to cycling as a whole. Not helpful.

I still take the view that this is a political issue really, which would explain why CUK aren't pushing it. I noticed a cosy picture in the magazine of Jeremy Hunt, who is a local MP near CUK HQ. Rather too close for comfort to the cosy feature on the Bottomley's in the 1980's, who were then of course local MPs. I've yet to see a cosy feature on any local Labour MPs- why not Jeremy Corbyn, that well known cyclist and Labour party leader? Or is he the "wrong sort of politician"?

atoz
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby atoz » 29 Sep 2018, 11:25am

I see from the pages of the magazine that we now have a five years Cycling UK strategy.

I looked on the website (as advised by the article). Oh dear. Not a great example of producing an accessible document. But that's another debate. What I noticed was..no explicit mention of how we might campaign to encourage rail companies to provide acceptable space for cycle carriage on trains. And it wasn't clear from the document how cycling should form part of transport policy generally- and by that I don't mean just plugging cycling as a cheap fix for the fact that for years we've not had acceptable public transport. I know this line is popular in some quarters, but it won't cut it. A few well publicised cycle lanes (and mostly crap ones, if we exclude London) are no substitute for cycling as part on an integrated transport system.

What I found rather more informative was a letter about the new GWR trains- and how a 12 coach modern train manages to have less cycle storage capacity than the venerable HST's (and let's face it, HST's weren't the best in this regard in any case).

There was a lot of waffle in this document. Reminded me of New Labour's 2015 election manifesto. Rather different from the 2017 manifesto of course. And we all know which was more popular with the voters. Lessons to be learned.

The only real way of sorting this problem out is a return to public ownership. Given that Cycling UK is now a charity, I don't expect a campagin from them on this- it would be "political" of course.

If this is the best Cycling UK can come up with, it will go the same way as New Labour politics. Time to take back control..(sorry, couldn't resist that one- lol)

PH
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby PH » 29 Sep 2018, 1:02pm

atoz wrote:The only real way of sorting this problem out is a return to public ownership. Given that Cycling UK is now a charity, I don't expect a campagin from them on this- it would be "political" of course.


Cycling UK co-hosted the Labour Cycles stall at this weeks Labour Party conference, I don't think they're afraid of political.

Tinnishill
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Tinnishill » 29 Sep 2018, 6:54pm

We were at Berwick on Tweed station yesterday. In the 75 minutes we sat waiting for a train we had prebooked I saw about a dozen touring cyclists, chatting to a few of them. The station ticket office had shut early and the ticket vending machine had failed. Several cyclists who had expected to turn up, buy a ticket and board the next train were turned away by on train crew who needed a prebooked bike reservation. We smuggled one guy on by packing our folding bikes to create a space. The station platform staff tried to rescue the others. The railway admin is now so disjointed and shambolic that even the best willed staff find it difficult to help cyclists.

Hello CUK HQ, are you out there, listening ? This is what I pay my subs for.
Agitate, educate, organise.

atoz
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby atoz » 2 Oct 2018, 12:09am

PH wrote:
atoz wrote:The only real way of sorting this problem out is a return to public ownership. Given that Cycling UK is now a charity, I don't expect a campagin from them on this- it would be "political" of course.


Cycling UK co-hosted the Labour Cycles stall at this weeks Labour Party conference, I don't think they're afraid of political.


Indeed..well well, things are moving on- better late than never..