Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

[atoz]

I remain sceptical of the idea - in my words - that keeping on the right side of government brings the best results.

Exactly. You have to fight to get what you want in this life- life's not a rehearsal. Consider it like an old fashioned trade union negotiation- ask for more tha you're likely to get, and after a hard prolonged negotiation you get what you wanted anyway. Which is precisely what Cycling UK doesn't seem to be doing. Tugging forelocks won't cut it.

it reminds me of a quote in Michael Hutchinson's "Re: Cyclists" in which an old bike racer when interviewed said "The bloody North Roaders. If it hadn't been for them and their forelock tugging we'd have had a Tour champion a hundred years ago" (p.165).

There's no point in keeping on the right side of this government, as this government is arguably against all a lot of us would consider decent.

There are lots of reason that many posters have put forward that taking bikes on trains will not be easy to achieve. But as Kennedy once said

We choose to go to the Moon! We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard

. OK, getting bikes on trains shouldn't be rocket science, but the principle surely stands.

As for who Cycling UK now represents- I for one am the "wrong type of cyclist", being a CTC member for over 30 years- Carradice saddlebag and all. I would like to be a MAMIL with lots of disposable income to blow on Rapha though..

[reohn2]

........There's no point in keeping on the right side of this government, as this government is arguably against all a lot of us would consider decent......

Ain't that the truth.

[Vorpal]

I'm off to the National Cycle Conference in Norway, and I tried to book a bike on the train in advance, but there were no advance bookings on the route I am taking. I was a little worried about getting on with my bike, but I needn't have worried, despite lots of other cyclists. They put on an extra cycle carriage today (second part of the journey), so even though there were lots of bikes, there was still plenty of space. Carriage number two only had a handful of bikes in it.

I did have to take my pannier bags off to use the cycle carriage. My first train of the day, was a local train, so I stood with my bike. It wasn't the only bike, or I would have had a seat, but it's also only 40 minutes.

When we all got off the train at Sarpsborg on Monday, the guard was in a bit of huff that they put on an extra cycle wagon, but not extra help. There were 42 bike2 to get out of 2 carriages in 2 minutes. Each bike carriage had a capacity of 30 bikes. There was another guard on, but she was supposed to stay in the other part of the train for security reasons. The train splits at the Sweden / Norway border, and she was on the part that carries on to Sweden.

One of the cyclists hopped up and helped him, until they got to his bike; he was then replaced with another. I don't think we quite got them off in the 2 minutes allocated for the stop, so the train was probably delayed by 2 or 3 minutes by the time it left the station.

I didn't have any trouble finding my way to the conference, though!

[reohn2]

I'm off to the National Cycle Conference in Norway, and I tried to book a bike on the train in advance, but there were no advance bookings on the route I am taking. I was a little worried about getting on with my bike, but I needn't have worried, despite lots of other cyclists. They put on an extra cycle carriage today (second part of the journey), so even though there were lots of bikes, there was still plenty of space. Carriage number two only had a handful of bikes in it.

I did have to take my pannier bags off to use the cycle carriage. My first train of the day, was a local train, so I stood with my bike. It wasn't the only bike, or I would have had a seat, but it's also only 40 minutes.

When we all got off the train at Sarpsborg on Monday, the guard was in a bit of huff that they put on an extra cycle wagon, but not extra help. There were 42 bike2 to get out of 2 carriages in 2 minutes. Each bike carriage had a capacity of 30 bikes. There was another guard on, but she was supposed to stay in the other part of the train for security reasons. The train splits at the Sweden / Norway border, and she was on the part that carries on to Sweden.

One of the cyclists hopped up and helped him, until they got to his bike; he was then replaced with another. I don't think we quite got them off in the 2 minutes allocated for the stop, so the train was probably delayed by 2 or 3 minutes by the time it left the station.

I didn't have any trouble finding my way to the conference, though!

Whenever you post anything about Norway it sounds a very civilised country,unlike the UK which IME seems to be becoming more uncivilized by the day

[Vorpal]

Sorry

Not everything is perfect here (if that helps) I rode my bike 60 miles yesterday, and while some of it was on very nice facilities, some of it was rather like the UK, where I had a choice between 60 mph traffic and bumpy pavement conversion.

Also, the signposting was dire.

[thirdcrank]

I believe that a big difference between the UK and Norway is that the latter didn't squander the North Sea oil/gas windfall.

[Vorpal]

I believe that a big difference between the UK and Norway is that the latter didn't squander the North Sea oil/gas windfall.

yeah, there's that. Some of that money has been used recently to boost the economy in the oil price drop. It seems to be working. Most of it is infrastructure projects.

[PH]

I took my bike on five trains over the weekend Derby > Sheffield > York > Newcastle on Friday morning and Newcastle > York > Derby on Monday afternoon.
Only issue was at Derby station when the announcement about which end first class was located wasn't correct and I was waiting at the wrong end of the platform, I was going to complain but the first class gentleman who'd had to walk through second class was already doing so
For most of the time, mine was the only bike on the train, in my travels this is pretty common. I'm all for better public transport and more integration, I'm not sure campaigning for more bikes on trains is that high a priority.

[atoz]

here's a piece in a local paper- quote from regional Cycling Uk councillor making his objections to Transpennine 's policy known.
https://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/its-now-not-easy-take-14744859 Good for him.

What a pity national Cycling UK aren't taking the opportunity to do likewise and get some serious publicity going for a high profile campaign. Subtle hint to anyone at national Cycliing UK reading this forum- wake up and smell the coffee.

[reohn2]

Sorry

Not everything is perfect here (if that helps) I rode my bike 60 miles yesterday, and while some of it was on very nice facilities, some of it was rather like the UK, where I had a choice between 60 mph traffic and bumpy pavement conversion.

Also, the signposting was dire.

No need to apologise,if anyone needs to apologise it's sucessive UK governments for squandering and mishandling the country's transport systems for so long

[horizon]

For most of the time, mine was the only bike on the train, in my travels this is pretty common.

In a way, the TOCs are making a problem that doesn't exist. Two bikes per carriage (hanging up maybe) isn't much space at all and most of the time would be totally adequate. Even two per train for the most part is enough. The problem often is luggage, buggies and stores being carried.

[Vorpal]

I'm all for better public transport and more integration, I'm not sure campaigning for more bikes on trains is that high a priority.

Except that with the need for new housing, 'Garden Villages' and all that, it is absolutely *crucial* to have an integrated transport strategy, if we are going to move all of those people. 24000 new homes on the A12 (or M1, or M6 or...) is not going to do anything but turn the nearest trunk into a car park and make people scream for more motorways.

Dutch planners map distances by bike & walking from stations for new housing, and plan all new houses in 'bubbles' around stations, including new stations, that are built for the new housing. They also look at the same 'bubbles' on the work/shopping/entertainment end, and include the need to either have bikes on both ends, or take them with. This takes higher priority than high capacity for car movements.

[horizon]

vorpal: I think what PH is saying is that the bike space is there already but isn't used - there is already enough.

[PH]

Dutch planners map distances by bike & walking from stations for new housing, and plan all new houses in 'bubbles' around stations, including new stations, that are built for the new housing. They also look at the same 'bubbles' on the work/shopping/entertainment end, and include the need to either have bikes on both ends, or take them with. This takes higher priority than high capacity for car movements.

I'm not sure that we're talking about the same thing. On my trips to the Netherlands, I haven't observed many bikes on trains, though it was simple enough to take mine when I wanted to, I noticed some have the same peak times restrictions as the worst of the UK operators.
I don't disagree that more thought needs to be given to how the people living in the 24,000 new homes need to move about, though better that they live where less travel is needed. If you're suggesting that making space for more bikes on trains is a solution, I doubt it'll ever be more than a tiny part of it.

[mjr]

vorpal: I think what PH is saying is that the bike space is there already but isn't used - there is already enough.

I disagree. There were at least 24 bikes on our train back from Dover last week. Our group had 6 of them (1 folding). The train had space for 6. I really expected the guard to order most of us off, as we were clearly obstructing passage through the train. It's stupid to have boat trains with so little luggage capacity (not only bike capacity).

Two bikes per train would mean that our group alone would fill bike spaces of three consecutive services. That's ridiculous. It would be even worse on non-reservable services where who knows how long we'd have to wait for cyclists ahead of us before we could board.

I doubt we'll risk bikes on trains late in the day again until something changes. There's just not enough capacity on routes that tourists want to use. I suspect we'll either ride to/from Harwich or hire a van to carry the bikes. I think we can still drive a crew-cab van on a basic car licence. Many European railway operators must be micturating themselves laughing at this complete and utter failure to integrate more sustainable transport methods.