Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 24 May 2019, 9:51pm

Ah! I missed that through noticing how ancient the rest of the thread was.

brynpoeth
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby brynpoeth » 25 May 2019, 7:34am

atoz wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Maybe it is logical* and who knows, there may have even been some market research
*One imagines that drive-cycling tragically is much more popular than taking bikes on trains, is cuk logically not giving much attention to a small minority?

Speculation of course, for once :wink:
Alternative facts welcome


I wonder how small the minority really is. And maybe it's small precisely because of the problems taking bikes on trains, which didn't use to be the case. Acccording to that. Cycling UK have the same approach to this subject that a lot of people have to cycling as a whole. Not helpful.

I still take the view that this is a political issue really, which would explain why CUK aren't pushing it. I noticed a cosy picture in the magazine of Jeremy Hunt, who is a local MP near CUK HQ. Rather too close for comfort to the cosy feature on the Bottomley's in the 1980's, who were then of course local MPs. I've yet to see a cosy feature on any local Labour MPs- why not Jeremy Corbyn, that well known cyclist and Labour party leader? Or is he the "wrong sort of politician"?

Plus One for cycling politrickians
Maybe the offer of cycle places in trains would create demand
Not many vehicles swam the Severn before a bridge was built
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby pete75 » 25 May 2019, 7:42pm

brynpoeth wrote:
atoz wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Maybe it is logical* and who knows, there may have even been some market research
*One imagines that drive-cycling tragically is much more popular than taking bikes on trains, is cuk logically not giving much attention to a small minority?

Speculation of course, for once :wink:
Alternative facts welcome


I wonder how small the minority really is. And maybe it's small precisely because of the problems taking bikes on trains, which didn't use to be the case. Acccording to that. Cycling UK have the same approach to this subject that a lot of people have to cycling as a whole. Not helpful.

I still take the view that this is a political issue really, which would explain why CUK aren't pushing it. I noticed a cosy picture in the magazine of Jeremy Hunt, who is a local MP near CUK HQ. Rather too close for comfort to the cosy feature on the Bottomley's in the 1980's, who were then of course local MPs. I've yet to see a cosy feature on any local Labour MPs- why not Jeremy Corbyn, that well known cyclist and Labour party leader? Or is he the "wrong sort of politician"?

Plus One for cycling politrickians
Maybe the offer of cycle places in trains would create demand
Not many vehicles swam the Severn before a bridge was built


There's been bridges over the Severn for hundreds of years, certainly since the thirteenth century.

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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby brynpoeth » 25 May 2019, 8:22pm

Below Gloucester I meant :wink:
I have a vague memory of the Aust Ferry by Chepstow
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Mike Sales
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Mike Sales » 25 May 2019, 8:25pm

brynpoeth wrote:I have a vague memory of the Aust Ferry by Chepstow


There is a famous photo of Bob Dylan at Aust.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/sep/12/bobdylan.topstories3

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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Mike Sales » 25 May 2019, 8:25pm

brynpoeth wrote:I have a vague memory of the Aust Ferry by Chepstow


There is a famous photo of Bob Dylan at Aust Ferry.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/sep/12/bobdylan.topstories3

You can just see the Severn Bridge in the mizzle, but this was apparently taken before it opened.

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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 25 May 2019, 9:00pm

Mike Sales wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:I have a vague memory of the Aust Ferry by Chepstow


There is a famous photo of Bob Dylan at Aust Ferry.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/sep/12/bobdylan.topstories3

You can just see the Severn Bridge in the mizzle, but this was apparently taken before it opened.

The portrait, with other images from the shoot, will be exhibited in a new museum being created in a 1950s ferry at Chepstow, upriver from the site.

I knew about the album cover but that's the first I've heard of the museum. Does anyone know about it? Was it a temporary thing or is it still there?

I'm surprised they say the site of the photo had to be "identified", it's hardly obscure.

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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Sweep » 27 May 2019, 4:42pm

Mike Sales wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:I have a vague memory of the Aust Ferry by Chepstow


There is a famous photo of Bob Dylan at Aust Ferry.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/sep/12/bobdylan.topstories3

You can just see the Severn Bridge in the mizzle, but this was apparently taken before it opened.

At the risk of diverting from an important topic I am interested in, can't help but smile at that caption - "ferry terminal" looks like a shed to me. Great pic of dylan of course but one might think him a bit of a serious poser for wearing dark shades on a dull nay grim looking day like that. But one has to look one's best.
Sweep

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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Mike Sales » 27 May 2019, 4:46pm

Sweep wrote:At the risk of diverting from an important topic I am interested in, can't help but smile at that caption - "ferry terminal" looks like a shed to me. Great pic of dylan of course but one might think him a bit of a serious poser for wearing dark shades on a dull nay grim looking day like that. But one has to look one's best.


I think it was me who started the diversion, but doesn't he look cool?

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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Grandad » 27 May 2019, 6:10pm

Further diversion. Riding back to Bristol after a tour in Wales in 1955 we found a very long queue of cars for the ferry. Felt very smug riding past them to the front and getting on the next departure :D If I remember correctly it did not run at low tide :(

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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 27 May 2019, 8:40pm

Shed? Yep, reminds us how far we've come since 1966.

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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby mjr » 27 May 2019, 10:36pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Shed? Yep, reminds us how far we've come since 1966.

Yes, in 2019, sheds pull trains... https://www.answers.com/Q/Why_is_the_Cl ... med_'Shed'
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby atoz » 24 Jun 2019, 5:20pm

More reasons for a Cycling UK campaign:

I needed to get a train back from York (visiting the Rally) yesterday. Involved a change of trains in Leeds. The contrast in trains was remarkable. The train from York was First Transpennine- a class 185 with of course no real bike space (which you have to reserve- lol)- whereas the Northen Train I got in Leeds was a class 150- ex BR stock Sprinter, which had quite acceptable cycle space with cables to secure the bike.

So the more modern the train is, the less likelihood there will be acceptable space for cycles. Nothing new there of course.

On another note- the class 185's First bought are diesel greedy, and over-heavy- they needed to have electronics retrofitted to sort the overconsumption of diesel out. By contrast, just about every Sprinter model BR bought had better power to weight ratio and axle loadings, which of course are better for the environment. The much maligned Pacers are of course quite economic also.

As for the Transpennine service itself- back in BR days you got 6-7 loco hauled coaches with a small buffet. Now you get mostly 3 coach sets or 2 x 3 sets when it's really busy- or not if you're unlucky. And oh yes- these 3 coach sets have First class. BR dumped first on DMU sets for good reasons. So basically you're getting what you used to get in the 1960s and 1970's with the old DMUTranspennine sets I remember from my childhood- only a hell of a lot more people travelling on them- with of course no bike space, and less coaches. The loco hauled trains in the 80's replaced these, and BR had plans to replace them with...HSTs!

Time for a return to public ownership.

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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby mjr » 24 Jun 2019, 5:40pm

atoz wrote:MSo the more modern the train is, the less likelihood there will be acceptable space for cycles. Nothing new there of course.

It's not as simple as that: some modern trains, such as the Thameslink Desiros or Anglia's new Flirts have quite acceptable Dutch-style bike spaces. Not as many as we'd like, but they are there. While some older ones (including Sprinters and Pacers) don't have good bike spaces in some versions of the interiors on some models of the train (I think there are at least four versions of Sprinter and two of Pacer about?)

atoz wrote:As for the Transpennine service itself- back in BR days you got 6-7 loco hauled coaches with a small buffet. Now you get mostly 3 coach sets or 2 x 3 sets when it's really busy- or not if you're unlucky. And oh yes- these 3 coach sets have First class. BR dumped first on DMU sets for good reasons. So basically you're getting what you used to get in the 1960s and 1970's with the old DMUTranspennine sets I remember from my childhood- only a hell of a lot more people travelling on them- with of course no bike space, and less coaches. The loco hauled trains in the 80's replaced these, and BR had plans to replace them with...HSTs!

Again, it's not as simple as that: Transpennine is introducing loco-hauled trains and the HST's successor (IET/Azuma/AT300) as soon as they can finish testing them, as part of their "Nova" programme. The IET/Azuma's limited bike spaces are covered elsewhere, but I don't remember how many the Mark 5 loco-hauled sets carry.
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Re: Why isn't there a cycles on trains campaigns from Cycling UK?

Postby atoz » 26 Jun 2019, 7:48pm

mjr wrote:
atoz wrote:MSo the more modern the train is, the less likelihood there will be acceptable space for cycles. Nothing new there of course.

It's not as simple as that: some modern trains, such as the Thameslink Desiros or Anglia's new Flirts have quite acceptable Dutch-style bike spaces. Not as many as we'd like, but they are there. While some older ones (including Sprinters and Pacers) don't have good bike spaces in some versions of the interiors on some models of the train (I think there are at least four versions of Sprinter and two of Pacer about?)

atoz wrote:As for the Transpennine service itself- back in BR days you got 6-7 loco hauled coaches with a small buffet. Now you get mostly 3 coach sets or 2 x 3 sets when it's really busy- or not if you're unlucky. And oh yes- these 3 coach sets have First class. BR dumped first on DMU sets for good reasons. So basically you're getting what you used to get in the 1960s and 1970's with the old DMUTranspennine sets I remember from my childhood- only a hell of a lot more people travelling on them- with of course no bike space, and less coaches. The loco hauled trains in the 80's replaced these, and BR had plans to replace them with...HSTs!

Again, it's not as simple as that: Transpennine is introducing loco-hauled trains and the HST's successor (IET/Azuma/AT300) as soon as they can finish testing them, as part of their "Nova" programme. The IET/Azuma's limited bike spaces are covered elsewhere, but I don't remember how many the Mark 5 loco-hauled sets carry.


I never claimed it was a simple matter. However, I am holding my breath on the availability of either adequate spaces on Azuma trains (if what happens on LNER trains is anything to go by) or any other services where I live- which is not in the South. It is likely that we will be lumbered with class 185s for many years. Even when they have been pensioned off from "express" services they will no doubt show up on stopping services locally- as happened with the earlier Sprinter trains. This is what happened with the BR class 158s, when First had finished wiith them.

Am I really supposed to believe that First have discovered customer service- given that they attempted to deny travel to disabled passengers on their "new" loco hauled stock using Mk3 coaches? The issue is customer service. Despite the variable space for bikes on Northern services, if you pick your times, you are unlucky not to manage to get on a train. Because class 185s are so horrendous, and First wish to deter cyclists by insisting on reservations, I avoid them like the plague. The person who posted also avoided making informed comment on my observations on earlier rolling stock- just dismissed it with reference to new stock that doesn't get close to what used to be provided. Ask any railway enthusiast over a certain age and they will confirm what I said- or just visit Wikipedia instead. It's simple- private railways=less cycle space- just like they mean less space on trains for passengers to actually sit. Not difficult to understand..