"I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

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pjclinch
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Re: "I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

Post by pjclinch »

MikeF wrote:
Ellieb wrote:Probably better than being sued by someone who says they didn't realise the hazards inherent in off road riding.
Depends how you define off road riding. Many people think it's safer, and for some it definitely is.


Indeed, downhill MTB and trundling gently around a park are both "off road". It's not just "more context" but "enough useful context".

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Cyril Haearn
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Re: "I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

Post by Cyril Haearn »

MikeF wrote:
Ellieb wrote:Probably better than being sued by someone who says they didn't realise the hazards inherent in off road riding.
Depends how you define off road riding. Many people think it's safer, and for some it definitely is.

We need some new vocab

"Off tarmac"? "Crazy cycling"?

I would like to try such an event if the downhill sections could be avoided, maybe one could get a train back to the start :wink:
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Wanlock Dod
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Re: "I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

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Si wrote:......I've just finished doing L3 with a load of Y7s that I did L2 with then they were Y6s. None of them could remember anything about L2 (and a lot of them were very good when they did L2....we don't give out L2 badges for fun), so we had to redo L2 before moving onto L3. When questioned only one of the group admitted that her parents ever let her ride on the road. We are now looking for ways of getting them to use their new found knowledge so that it stays with them, but given the lack of funding, plus the parents' terror of the children being on road unsupervised...

I have felt for some time that the main aim of Bikeability, and any similar activities, was to provide a mechanism by which the funds allocated to cycling could be dedicated to cycling in a way which does not result in more people cycling. This is achieved by teaching kids who will not be allowed to ride bikes. It seems to have been a very effective way for local authorities to micturate away any funds allocated for cycling without actually benefiting anybody, but particularly without increasing numbers of cyclists
Si wrote:Doing bikeability with adults seems more worthwhile as many go out and use it straight away.

Are adult bike lessons funded from the same pot that pays for the kids lessons, of is the money allocated to cycling no allowed to be spent on things that might actually encourage cycling? It sounds to me as though the money for adult training is coming from public health sources, which seems to fit pretty well with the theory that money allocated to cycling within councils cannot be spent on anything that actually increases levels of cycling.
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pjclinch
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Re: "I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

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Wanlock Dod wrote:I have felt for some time that the main aim of Bikeability, and any similar activities, was to provide a mechanism by which the funds allocated to cycling could be dedicated to cycling in a way which does not result in more people cycling. This is achieved by teaching kids who will not be allowed to ride bikes. It seems to have been a very effective way for local authorities to micturate away any funds allocated for cycling without actually benefiting anybody, but particularly without increasing numbers of cyclists


I don't think it's that bad. But it's not far off... My take is that Bikeability costs nothing much in the grand scheme of things and primarily allows the ticking of A Box, but it is at least a box that does some good for some riders. Given the typical choices of spending your nothing much on training, which does do some people some good, or painting unusable lanes to nowhere, it looks like a fair choice.

See http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/11/how-bikeability-and-cycling-proficiency.html on how ineffective things are.

Wanlock Dod wrote:Are adult bike lessons funded from the same pot that pays for the kids lessons, of is the money allocated to cycling no allowed to be spent on things that might actually encourage cycling? It sounds to me as though the money for adult training is coming from public health sources, which seems to fit pretty well with the theory that money allocated to cycling within councils cannot be spent on anything that actually increases levels of cycling.


There is no singular pot. Though what various pots there are may have some extra money provided centrally, like the £11m that David Hembrow was writing about in the blog post highlighted above (one of those useful political sums that sounds like a lot of money but is, I'd guess, about a pound per child across the country).
My extra volunteer work for NHS Tayside (for whom I work in my day job) to give free lessons to NHST employees is a case of me saying "hey, I'm a qualified cycle trainer and I'll do this if you like" and the Healthy Working Lives team letting me run with it. It doesn't cost any money to speak of. NHST's head of public health is happy to encourage cycling (and rides himself) but he doesn't have a specific cycling budget that will make modal share differences. Cycle training in general is a local authority remit and has been since (IIRC) 1974 when Cycling Proficiency was handed to LAs, and is thus in much the same place as other cycle provision.

As with many things at LA level, there is much variation in what is spent to what end, for which one needs to look to councillors and the policies they enact. If you have a council run notionally by the Greens and another notionally run by UKIP then you'd get far more effort aimed at cycling levels in the former. This is democracy in action, tempered by finite budgets and a voting population with a measure of people who think they have a God-given right to park anywhere they feel like.

In Scotland we still have a cycling promotion quango (Cycling Scotland), and while on the one hand they're providing Bikeability Scotland materials, standards and structures for LAs, on the other they are Clued enough to point out quite openly that it isn't enough in itself. But they only have the funding they're given to do the work they're given by the government.

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jgurney
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Re: "I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

Post by jgurney »

pjclinch wrote: this is the sort of cut-and-paste

Yes, that term "bicycling" suggests it was copied from an American original.
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pjclinch
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Re: "I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

Post by pjclinch »

jgurney wrote:
pjclinch wrote: this is the sort of cut-and-paste

Yes, that term "bicycling" suggests it was copied from an American original.


Nothing ever goes wrong on a trike...

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: "I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

Post by Wanlock Dod »

pjclinch wrote:I don't think it's that bad...

Thanks for the explanation, I admire your optimism.
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Si
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Re: "I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

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Are adult bike lessons funded from the same pot that pays for the kids lessons, of is the money allocated to cycling no allowed to be spent on things that might actually encourage cycling? It sounds to me as though the money for adult training is coming from public health sources, which seems to fit pretty well with the theory that money allocated to cycling within councils cannot be spent on anything that actually increases levels of cycling



yes, different pots.

Within the council there are several funding streams. Some dedicated to infra and some to training, promo, education, etc. Both sides support each other, for instance, being able to demonstrate that the council has improved health and wellbeing in deprived areas makes it easier to win support for infra. There have been a number of high profile stories from such deprived areas which councillors areoften keen to be associated with.
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Si
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Re: "I understand that bicycling is a hazardous activity."

Post by Si »

....anyway, after having a good whinge at the local bikeability boss we are now looking at doing weekly after school cycling activities so that the children who have done bikeability carry on using it and gain further skills and interests in cycling. There may also be an element of family cycling involved.

At the moment we dont have a definitive framework, rather we are still chucking ideas into the pot to see what might work.
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