Bike racks on buses

[gaz]

While I understand the words, I don't understand what the sentence means. I presume that as 'last mile' is in quotes, it has a specific meaning in some quarters.

Multi-modal journeys, typically walk one mile from home/work to public transport, get on vehicle, walk final mile to work/home. If you can increase the final mile to a final three miles by providing the flexibility to combine bikes and public transport, more people may be willing to leave their car behind and use public transport.

[thirdcrank]

... Multi-modal journeys, typically walk one mile from home/work to public transport, get on vehicle, walk final mile to work/home. If you can increase the final mile to a final three miles by providing the flexibility to combine bikes and public transport, more people may be willing to leave their car behind and use public transport.

Thnks for that and I understand that's an explanation, rather than advocacy.

[mjr]

So everyone just ignores the safety and security arguments?

I don't understand this post.

These points have been made in brief here and in more detail on the website but I'll elaborate:

Front-mounted bike racks are better for safety because the driver can directly visually verify that the bikes are securely attached and if they fall during motion, they are likely to fall harmlessly against the bus front or possibly get run over by the bus. A bike falling from a rear rack would be an unexpected hazard to following road users.

Front-mounted bike racks are better for security because almost everyone can see if someone tries to nick a bike from it (while the bus is stopped at a red light, for example), whereas rear racks would be hidden from view on most current bus designs.

[thirdcrank]

Let's imagine for a moment that the users of some type of motor vehicle were campaigning for reasons of their own convenience to have a broadly similar arrangement mounted on the front in opposition to the safety-based decision of the DVSA.

When I read the link - and I'm not going back yet again to check the exact wording - there's reference to this system in other countries. Fair enough, but which are they? What evidence is there from these places? Having lobbied strongly for the banning of bullying bars from the fronts of motor vehicles, I'd be cautious about changing my stance.

[mjr]

Let's imagine for a moment that the users of some type of motor vehicle were campaigning for reasons of their own convenience to have a broadly similar arrangement mounted on the front in opposition to the safety-based decision of the DVSA.

That would make sense - but the DVSA decision was "on principle" and its arguments (speaking of non-existent "sharp protrusions" and claiming that the view of children near the kerb would be compromised) strongly suggest they haven't assessed the safety of current designs in any meaningful way. It's rather like how some highways designers kept blithely applying bad designs from the manuals without actually assessing the safety (but strangely, now we've some good designs in the manuals like https://cycletraffic-elearning.com , they're finding reasons why they can't simply apply them. ) It should be challenged.

[middleagedspread]

... there's reference to this system in other countries. Fair enough, but which are they? What evidence is there from these places?

They are pretty much ubiquitous in North America. The % of buses in the US with bike racks increased from 27 percent in 2000 to 71 percent in 2008 (1) and has continued to increase since then.

At least 50,000 buses had bike racks in the US as of 2012 (2).

With the exception of New York, every major city and most mid-sized cities in the US had 100% of buses with bike racks as of the 2011/12 survey (3)

I could find almost nothing on increased hazard to pedestrians, either reading through the literature on cycle-transit integration or by using google with several likely combinations of search terms (see below). Two relevant search findings included:

"There has been NO notable research indicating that front-mounted buses are any greater a safety problem for pedestrians, either in terms of the rack protusions [sic] themselves or th [sic] additional front overhang caused by them." (4)

though this was from a cycling advocacy site.

A perhaps more objective view from a 1997 study into engineering and safety issues of bike racks on the front of buses concluded:

"In summary, it is not possible to reliably estimate the possible effects of bus-mounted bike racks on pedestrian accidents due to a lack of data about pedestrian/bus accidents ... it is expected that any change in the number of serious bus/pedestrian accidents arising from widespread use of bike racks on the front of buses will be negligible, particularly when compared with the overall number of pedestrian accidents or the overall road accident casualties." (5)

One search result stated that a cyclist was killed when removing her bike from a front bike rack in Chicago, but this was clearly due to the negligence on the driver. (6)

It seems to me that there are relatively few lessons that European countries can draw from North America when it comes to safe cycling infrastructure, but that does not mean that we can blithely ignore the North American experience. In this case it appears that the ubiquity and success of front mounted bike racks on buses in such a litigious country as the US (not to mention the similar Canadian experience) provides a sufficient evidence base to at least consider that safety concerns should not 'in principle' be a barrier to their use in the UK.

Example search terms:
Bus bike rack hazard pedestrians
Bus bike rack danger pedestrians
Bus bike rack accident
Bus bike rack collision


References
(1) https://nctr.usf.edu/jpt/pdf/JPT12-3Pucher.pdf
(2) https://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... rkshop.pdf
(3) https://www.aarp.org/content/dam/aarp/l ... Report.pdf
(4) https://can.org.nz/book/bike-racks-on-buses
(5) http://www.mpainesyd.com/filechute/Paine_BIKERACK.pdf
(6) http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012 ... ddison-bus

[Cyril Haearn]

There are electric locomotives with small diesel engines for the "last mile", if some of the route is not electrified they can use diesel

*Mile* did not always mean 1760 yards

Best example use of "last mile" might be the way home from the train station

[reohn2]

So everyone just ignores the safety and security arguments?

I don't understand this post.

These points have been made in brief here and in more detail on the website but I'll elaborate:

Front-mounted bike racks are better for safety because the driver can directly visually verify that the bikes are securely attached and if they fall during motion, they are likely to fall harmlessly against the bus front or possibly get run over by the bus. A bike falling from a rear rack would be an unexpected hazard to following road users.

Front-mounted bike racks are better for security because almost everyone can see if someone tries to nick a bike from it (while the bus is stopped at a red light, for example), whereas rear racks would be hidden from view on most current bus designs.

I've put forward why front fitted bike racks aren't a viable consideration for the UK,and why rear fitted one's would be better,that's only a layman's opinion and as posted previously YVMV .
TBH nothing I seen or read has changed my mind.

[mjr]

I've pu forward why front fitted bike racks aren't a viable consideration for the UK,and why rear fitted one would be better,that's only a layman's opinion and as posted previously YVMV .TBH nothing I seen or read has changed my mind.

I've explained why that so-called "common sense" seems shaky and explained why I feel rear racks would be less safe and also insecure. You seem to have no answer to those strong reasons for front-mounting, nor any reason why the UK is special and unsuitable for front racks that are used abroad.

[reohn2]

I've pu forward why front fitted bike racks aren't a viable consideration for the UK,and why rear fitted one would be better,that's only a layman's opinion and as posted previously YVMV .TBH nothing I seen or read has changed my mind.

I've explained why that so-called "common sense" seems shaky and explained why I feel rear racks would be less safe and also insecure. You seem to have no answer to those strong reasons for front-mounting, nor any reason why the UK is special.

But I have and have posted those reasons up thread.

[thirdcrank]

middleagedspread

That's a detailed reply with a very short turn around.

Obviously, I've only had time to skim some of it. Reference no 5 seems very relevant although some of it fails on mjr's objection to using photograph's rather than a physical inspection.

This is evident in a newspaper photograph of the bike rack being demonstrated on an ACTION bus. Consideration should therefore be given to the fitting of supplementary turn signal lamps at the front of the bus. From the same photograph it appears that the bike rack does not obscure the bus headlights.
(My emphasis.)

At least the VDSA were working from pics taken for the purpose.

I presume this stuff has been submitted to the VDSA or whoever? I can't imagine my query triggered the research.

[Cyril Haearn]

Buses could have roof racks

Anyone hit by a bus would be in a bad way with or without a rack on the front

[middleagedspread]

That's a detailed reply with a very short turn around. ... I presume this stuff has been submitted to the VDSA or whoever? I can't imagine my query triggered the research.

I did the research last night - some of the earlier thread comments prompted me, since it also seemed common sense to me that the bike racks at the front would be hazardous to pedestrians (or indeed cyclists) who were struck by the bus. Your request for evidence just happened to be a convenient place to comment

From a user perspective, bike racks at the front are much safer - they are very visible from the drivers position, but the racks and bikes don't obstruct the driver's view.

This is a (shaky) video from when Edmonton was piloting the bike racks. The video is taken from a position to the right of the driver, and shows that visibility is not significantly obstructed by a loaded rack.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/W04bsRPjAI0

As cycling enthusiasts, I think we tend to view these things from a particular perspective: why on earth would someone want to put their bike on a bus for short journeys? Surely they would just ride? But from the perspective of people who want to make journeys, rather than cycling enthusiasts, adding this option increases the number and range of journeys they can make, part of which are by bicycle.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, having emigrated to Canada a few years ago, but perhaps someone who does will pass the information on to the VDSA. I suspect that linking transit infrastructure with cycling like this has the potential to increase cycling uptake, and therefore save more lives than would be risked by any potential slight additional hazard to pedestrians.

John

[horizon]

As cycling enthusiasts, I think we tend to view these things from a particular perspective: why on earth would someone want to put their bike on a bus for short journeys? Surely they would just ride? But from the perspective of people who want to make journeys, rather than cycling enthusiasts, adding this option increases the number and range of journeys they can make, part of which are by bicycle.

I have specific work-related journey that I often do from Totnes to Dartmouth, a fairly hilly 12 miles. I need to arrive in smart clothes at about 9.00 am. There's no train. So the bus would be ideal (there is one) and I would cycle back. It would help if I knew for sure they would take the folder. At present I take the car.

There are plenty of other times when a long journey might be helped by taking the bus.

[thirdcrank]

I knew nothing about bus design regulations so I looked it up up using the clues in the reply from the DVSA.

In my words:

New buses have to meet various standards including minimising danger to others in a collision. I believe these are achieved after crash tests and it's broadly similar to what's done for cars. There seems to be no standard for bike carriers on the front of buses, so fitting one amounts to changing an approved PSV. Changes are dealt with in different ways: if it's like-for-like eg replacing tyres, there's no need to report. Otherwise, alteration to things like passenger entrances/exits must be reported and are judged against current standards for buses. Other things are judged against compliance with more general regulations like con & use. The relevant reg here seems to be reg 100 which I've edited for clarity.

Maintenance and use of vehicle so as not to be a danger, etc

100.—(1) A motor vehicle, ... and all parts and accessories of such vehicle ... shall at all times be in such condition,... that no danger is caused or is likely to be caused to any person ... on a road.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986 ... n/100/made

It may be argued that every time a motor vehicle goes out on the road danger is caused, but that's not how regulations are interpreted. I would say that a bike rack mounted on the front of a car would be contrary to that and it's hard to see that a bus is different.