Swapping penalty points

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Cunobelin
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby Cunobelin » 24 Nov 2018, 2:56pm

Please feel free to use personal insults


When posters sink that low, it is normally a sign that reasonable discussion is No longer possible

I will stick with the evidence of ACPO, Parliament, and the real world

pete75
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby pete75 » 24 Nov 2018, 3:50pm

Cunobelin wrote:Please feel free to use personal insults


When posters sink that low, it is normally a sign that reasonable discussion is No longer possible

I will stick with the evidence of ACPO, Parliament, and the real world


I think it was you who first mentioned fantasy claims. I merely responded that yours seem to be fantasy. The reason you're not discussing any longer is you can't answer the points I've made. :lol:

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Cunobelin
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby Cunobelin » 24 Nov 2018, 3:54pm

See above

pete75
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby pete75 » 24 Nov 2018, 7:48pm

Cunobelin wrote:See above


I have done - an oh so easy cop-out. :lol:

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Cunobelin
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby Cunobelin » 24 Nov 2018, 8:22pm

pete75 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:See above


I have done - an oh so easy cop-out. :lol:



See above....

pete75
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby pete75 » 24 Nov 2018, 8:45pm

Cunobelin wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:See above


I have done - an oh so easy cop-out. :lol:



See above....


Having a problem remembering what you've already said I see.

brynpoeth
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Re: MPs swapping penalty points: Labour

Postby brynpoeth » 22 Dec 2018, 10:13am

Fiona Onasunya, Laber MP has just been convicted of swapping points, or trying to
She and her brother can expect a spell at Her Majestys Pleasure
Do only liberal and laber members do this, are the tories clean?
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love the three Es: enforcement, enforcement & enforcement

pwa
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Re: MPs swapping penalty points: Labour

Postby pwa » 22 Dec 2018, 10:51am

brynpoeth wrote:Fiona Onasunya, Laber MP has just been convicted of swapping points, or trying to
She and her brother can expect a spell at Her Majestys Pleasure
Do only liberal and laber members do this, are the tories clean?

Probably anyone who thinks they will get away with it and don't have a moral code that stops them doing it.

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661-Pete
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby 661-Pete » 22 Dec 2018, 11:53am

Crass stupidity has nothing whatever to do with political alignment. I do not see why anyone should make political capital out of it.

Incidentally, if right-wing Tory-supporting people do in fact try it on, we could apprise them of a few salient facts from the not-too-distant past. Jonathan Aitken for example? Jeffrey Archer?
Pete

Et qui rit des curés d'Oc?/De Meuse raines, houp! de cloques./De quelles loques ce turque coin./Et ne d'anes ni rennes,/Ecuries des curés d'Oc. - Louis d'Antin

pwa
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby pwa » 22 Dec 2018, 12:02pm

661-Pete wrote:Crass stupidity has nothing whatever to do with political alignment. I do not see why anyone should make political capital out of it.

Incidentally, if right-wing Tory-supporting people do in fact try it on, we could apprise them of a few salient facts from the not-too-distant past. Jonathan Aitken for example? Jeffrey Archer?

Throwing your own political bricks there! But no, I don't see it as a party thing at all. Just bad MPs who need weeding out.

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Cunobelin
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Re: MPs swapping penalty points: Labour

Postby Cunobelin » 23 Dec 2018, 9:27am

brynpoeth wrote:Fiona Onasunya, Laber MP has just been convicted of swapping points, or trying to
She and her brother can expect a spell at Her Majestys Pleasure
Do only liberal and laber members do this, are the tories clean?


They simply exploit other more sensible loopholes like claiming they could not remember who was driving..... It was called the "Hamilton Defence after Tory MP and his wife Christine used it successfully

Neil and Christine Hamilton have claimed a "victory for the downtrodden motorist" after escaping a fine for speeding.
The disgraced former Conservative minister and his wife were in Mrs Hamilton's car when it was registered at 63mph in a 50mph zone on the M62 near Rochdale, in February.
Mrs Hamilton received a fixed penalty notice months later but claimed she could not remember whether she or her husband was driving at the time.

The case was thrown out yesterday by a district judge at Manchester City Magistrates Court. Mr Hamilton said: "For once, justice has been done in an English court, which has not invariably been the case in my experience.
"It was only a £40 fine and three penalty points, and we both have clean licences, so I suppose we could have paid the fine and tossed a coin to decide who got the points.
"But at the bottom of the notice you must sign a declaration that all the information is correct, and it states that it is an offence to supply false information.
"We would have been committing an offence if we had guessed who was driving because there was a 50 per cent chance it would have been false."


That loophole has however now been closed as this Tory found out:


Former Conservative party leader Michael Howard has been fined £900 after being convicted of failing to say who was driving his car when it was caught by a speed camera.

Lord Howard and his wife Sandra said either of them could have been driving their Toyota Prius when it was caught clocking 37.3mph in a 30mph zone as it was driven through Lewisham in south-east London on 24 January.

The former Home Secretary was subsequently convicted of failing to give information relating to the identification of a vehicle to the Metropolitan Police and was fined £900 plus £625 costs and a £90 victim surcharge and received six penalty points on his driving licence.





However all we have proved is that once again there is very;ittle between the parties when it comes to the honesty and integrity of individual MPs

thirdcrank
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jan 2019, 4:54pm

In today's Daily Telegraph. You have to plough through replays of several of Nick Freeman's high profile successes but you get there in the end:-

... There is a persistent urban myth that a driving fine or penalty can be avoided if the owner of a vehicle does not identify the driver at the time the offence was committed. We see a large number of court cases, which could have been avoided if the registered keeper had named the drive ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... penalties/

Bonefishblues
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby Bonefishblues » 2 Jan 2019, 5:13pm

thirdcrank wrote:In today's Daily Telegraph. You have to plough through replays of several of Nick Freeman's high profile successes but you get there in the end:-

... There is a persistent urban myth that a driving fine or penalty can be avoided if the owner of a vehicle does not identify the driver at the time the offence was committed. We see a large number of court cases, which could have been avoided if the registered keeper had named the drive ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... penalties/

I think that's a good article saying, as it does, that just because high profile cases have hit the media, don't think that if you've done the crime, you can avoid taking the time, as it were.

Barks
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby Barks » 2 Jan 2019, 7:39pm

So using a handheld mobile phone to dictate a joke is somehow different to using a handheld mobile phone to make a call - what a joke. Suspend the judge, it is clearly the same offence. And as for why there should be any timelimit on NIP is beyond me, Beckham has just shown how crass and arrogant he is, rather than simply accept he had broken the law (by his own omission) and pay the fine. We need black box trackers on cars to be used to utomatically send speeding fines.

thirdcrank
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Re: Swapping penalty points

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Jan 2019, 7:47pm

Barks wrote:So using a handheld mobile phone to dictate a joke is somehow different to using a handheld mobile phone to make a call - what a joke. Suspend the judge, it is clearly the same offence. ...


It depends on what the defendant is charged with. If the charge says using a mobile phone, then that's what has to be proved. Also, I'm not sure that this bit is strictly accurate:

Comedian, Carr, also used the services of Mr Freeman when he was caught using his mobile phone.

The lawyer convinced magistrates that his client had not been using his phone to make a call but to dictate a joke.


IIRC, the defence submitted that the prosecution had not proved that the device being used was a phone - suggesting that it might have been something else - and so a submission of "no case to answer" was successful. ie Case dismissed without defence having to bat, so to speak.