compulsary bells back on the agenda!

[ANTONISH]

If ever there had been a bell-on-bikes-when-being-ridden law, somebody would surely be able to quote it.

Road Vehicles (Traffic) Regulations 1933 regulation 7. Applies in Northern Ireland, I do not believe it has ever applied in England, Wales or Scotland.

It was a requirement for time trials in the late 50's. Generally we just used a simple "pinger". I don't know if it was in response to any legislation.
I've tried various bells - IME the "pinger" will bring a group of pedestrians to a halt while they gaze about trying to locate the sound source - the best response I get is from an old Dutch bell - quite musical and usually recognised as a bicycle sound.

[mjr]

As regular readers will recall, I think bells are a good idea and I've two bells I particularly like: an old English bring-bring on the Dutch roadster which people seem to find inoffensive even smiley; and a temple bell on the road bike which is basically a giant pinger but loud and not harsh like a mini one. I use a bell because I think they can be heard more generally, especially on the cycleways here alongside motorists roaring around, but I will stop and shout "Ahoy!" if an oncoming rider shows no sign of looking up, as happened yesterday morning.

But I think this is a completely stupid move by the House of Lords. If our 800 appointed-or-inherited members of the upper house wanted to demonstrate how out of touch the undemocratic bit of our parliament can be, they couldn't do much better than using a debate about the danger for active travel of bad road maintenance to discuss something that has nothing to do with road maintenance and no measurable safety benefit.

[mjr]

Anyway, it's occurred to me that I posted on there that a literal reading of the current regs forbids the fitting or use of bells on all but emergency vehicles.

viewtopic.php?p=1241305#p1241305

Here's the reg, with the relevant bits in bold (remember that a pedal cycle is a vehicle. This reg refers to vehicles, not motor vehicles or mechanically propelled vehicles.)

Thanks for the reminder. I've posted there how the regulation was only applied to motor vehicles and not cycles.

[FatBat]

From a careful reading of this thread, I think I've reached the conclusion that one day it might be compulsory to have a bell fitted, but it would be illegal to ping it. Who said the House of Lords was out of touch with reality?

[thirdcrank]

It's one of those things that will never be tested, but it was only when I was looking into the "air horns to deter pedestrians" subject that I realised that the ban on bells was not restricted to motor/mechanically propelled vehicles, but applies to all vehicles. I'm pretty sure that this must have been an oversight on the part of the Parliamentary draughtsmen (draughtspeople?) because all the other exceptions such as reversing alarms, anti-theft alarms, personal attack alarms on PSV's and ice-cream van chimes are covered; but no exception for bells on pedal cycles.

Also, I cannot see any escape-hatch in the rules for the interpretation of statutes. The list "gong, bell, siren or two-tone horn" is obviously intended to permit their fitting and use on emergency vehicles while banning them from all other vehicles. The authorities don't want people charging about going "nee-naw." In the years after the war, all sorts of military surplus was readily available and I knew somebody who used an ex-army signalling lamp as a front lamp on his bike and he also had a powerful siren which he used with discretion. Anyway, the only relevant interpretation rule I can think of is that individual items in a list are defined by the others in the list. (Noscitur a sociis) On that basis, they wouldn't want the bell off a fire engine mounted on a pedal cycle any more than a two-tone horn.

As I've already posted, it will never be tested. It's just something to mention to anybody slack-gobbing in the mistaken belief that bells are compulsory. Not only are they not a legal requirement but technically, they are banned.

[RickH]

On the subject of pinger bells, I realised that the sound of a pinger bell is almost identical to the default ping sound that Facebook Messenger (the instant messaging app linked to Facebook) makes when a new message arrives. More people these days probably associate the sound with that than with an approaching bike.

We fitted one of these to the tandem recently.



It is difficult to sound aggressive with it but does seem to get people's attention more than a bell when we're using shared use facilities, mainly around Chester.

[MikeF]

I find bells are more useful off road. But considering bells with a good ping cost under a fiver just what is all the fuss about?

You can ring your bell at me as much as you like and I wouldn't hear it. Using your voice or a brake pedal would be much more effective.

If you can't hear a bell how can you hear a voice???

I disagree. Works where I cycle without a problem, but the paths a reasonably wide; I can't shout loud enough to give 8-10 seconds warning and I'd be hoarse if I could!

[broadway]

I find bells are more useful off road. But considering bells with a good ping cost under a fiver just what is all the fuss about?

You can ring your bell at me as much as you like and I wouldn't hear it. Using your voice or a brake pedal would be much more effective.

If you can't hear a bell how can you hear a voice???

I disagree. Works where I cycle without a problem, but the paths a reasonably wide; I can't shout loud enough to give 8-10 seconds warning and I'd be hoarse if I could!

Hearing lose mostly occurs at high frequencies and in my case it makes most bicycle bell inaudible to me. So unless you decide to whistle I can easily hear a warning.

[The utility cyclist]

If you're being considerate when coming from behind others then a bell/horn is absolutely not required and definitely not desirable, as per the poster above, what if someone has impaired hearing or is totally deaf, do you keep on ringing your bell incessantly in the same way a motorist leans on their horn
Frankly it highlights another reason why shared use lanes are garbage.

[Cyril Haearn]

If you're being considerate when coming from behind others then a bell/horn is absolutely not required and definitely not desirable, as per the poster above, what if someone has impaired hearing or is totally deaf, do you keep on ringing your bell incessantly in the same way a motorist leans on their horn
Frankly it highlights another reason why shared use lanes are garbage.

If the person seems not to hear or respond one slows down
Much prefer to share with PoFs than with motons

[mjr]

If you're being considerate when coming from behind others then a bell/horn is absolutely not required and definitely not desirable, as per the poster above, what if someone has impaired hearing or is totally deaf, do you keep on ringing your bell incessantly in the same way a motorist leans on their horn
Frankly it highlights another reason why shared use lanes are garbage.

If the person seems not to hear or respond one slows down
Much prefer to share with PoFs than with motons

And after slowing down and getting close enough, one says hello. It's the sneaking up without even attempting a bell which I feel is offensive. A bell carries much further than speech and is far less aggressive than shouting. It's also normal and will become commonplace and unremarkable once again as cycling increases.

Not having a bell would probably make cycleways hard to use, as people do walk anywhere once liberated from the fear of being killed by motorists.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
I agree with mjr.....did I just say that
I sometimes come upon runner three abreast with a dog from behind, deep in meaningless conversation.
Just try and rouse them........bell......electric horn........cough..........voice.....raise a little louder.........

A bell is a good place to start from a distance also as has been said before, dogs tend to hear sooner and even horses before the riders, this makes the owners look a round.

No body is saying ride up silently to with in feet and blast away.

I start as soon as I see them which is normally beyond hearing, that way its gradual volume.

[MikeF]

If you're being considerate when coming from behind others then a bell/horn is absolutely not required and definitely not desirable, as per the poster above, what if someone has impaired hearing or is totally deaf, do you keep on ringing your bell incessantly in the same way a motorist leans on their horn
Frankly it highlights another reason why shared use lanes are garbage.

Totally disagree. 8-10 seconds is ample time to judge whether a person has heard the bell. One ping is all that's necessary most of the time - it's extremely rare to find someone who doesn't hear it. Depends very much on the route whether it's suitable for shared use. Canal towpaths I've experienced (walking) seem totally unsuitable for shared use, but a 3 metre wide path is OK, but still not ideal. The new path alongside Tonbridge Road Pembury must be about 4 metres wide plus a strip between it and the road. I'm not sure how much use it will have either by cyclists or walkers (or even horses)

[Thornyone]

I have a bell and use it a lot on shared paths. I’m surprised how often young people with headphones move to the side, having clearly heard it. However, if I see a loose dog with likely owner on a shared path, I pass carefully without ringing my bell because I have found that dog-walkers tend to panic and shout “Rover!” (or whatever) as soon as they hear a bell, with the result that the pooch is likely to run straight to the owner and straight under my wheels en route. So using my no-bell-ring approach I recently passed a dog-walker whose pooch was to the side of the path. It ran straight across and I stopped inches from it. (It goes without saying that I alway pass others slowly). The owner said “I didn’t hear a bell” in an accusatory tone, to which I replied “I don’t see a dog lead”. His reply to this was “I don’t need a dog lead” (bear in mind that I was on a marked shared cycle path).
My bell is a single-ping quite musical “ding” and when I can be bothered I give the brass a high shine .

[Pastychomper]

I use my brake levers by flicking them, that make a click, click, etc to warn people but I don't know anyone else that does this.

As I recall that was mentioned by the Penguin Book of the Bicycle as the preferred initial greeting of some polite cyclists. I've tried it occasionally, but sometimes the clicking gets drowned by the wind.