compulsary bells back on the agenda!

[JohnW]

................Compulsion would be grrrreat

I'm not convinced about compulsion - on the road, with all the background noise, they're inaudible. Motorists will laugh, and pedestrians are better protected by our use of the brakes - and, a kind shout is accessed much quicker then a bell! Our behaviour on the road is also crucial.

On cyclepaths/greenways walkers often don't hear the current tinkerbells - and so often they're plugged into some electronic music or just jabbering away. If we're going to adopt "audible means of approach" it needs to be audible. When the world was young, we had large bells that certainly could make the whelkin ring, but the world is a noisier place.

I'm all in favour of "audible means of approach", but it needs to be audible. If it becomes compulsory, it needs to be well thought out, practical and in consultation with cyclists - neither of which is understood by government.

[Mike_Ayling]

Arewe getting back to Airzound again?

Mike

[JohnW]

Arewe getting back to Airzound again?

Mike

Would that be a bit of a viscous blast on a Greenway/cyclepath?

[mjr]

................Compulsion would be grrrreat

I'm not convinced about compulsion - on the road, with all the background noise, they're inaudible. Motorists will laugh, and pedestrians are better protected by our use of the brakes - and, a kind shout is accessed much quicker then a bell! Our behaviour on the road is also crucial.

Little plastic-hammered pingers might be inaudible but good bells definitely aren't. Mine carries along the busy A10 far better than my voice. It's never going to be heard by a motorist with windows up and music blaring, but they don't hear emergency sirens so nothing on a bike will be heard until car stereos are volume-limited by the MOT test.

If we're going to adopt "audible means of approach" it needs to be audible. When the world was young, we had large bells that certainly could make the whelkin ring, but the world is a noisier place.

I'm fairly sure cars have gotten quieter on average.

[JohnW]

................Compulsion would be grrrreat

I'm not convinced about compulsion - on the road, with all the background noise, they're inaudible. Motorists will laugh, and pedestrians are better protected by our use of the brakes - and, a kind shout is accessed much quicker then a bell! Our behaviour on the road is also crucial.

Little plastic-hammered pingers might be inaudible but good bells definitely aren't. Mine carries along the busy A10 far better than my voice. It's never going to be heard by a motorist with windows up and music blaring, but they don't hear emergency sirens so nothing on a bike will be heard until car stereos are volume-limited by the MOT test.

If we're going to adopt "audible means of approach" it needs to be audible. When the world was young, we had large bells that certainly could make the whelkin ring, but the world is a noisier place.

I'm fairly sure cars have gotten quieter on average.

That's a good bell that you have then mjr - is it like the big 'double clangers' that we used to have in days of yore? My problem with mine was that the internals always rattled as I rode along - but they certainly were louder than the tinkerbells. My experience was that pedestrians could hear it, but motorists couldn't - or they ignored it!

I've mentioned my "tootle-flooter" before, on other threads - it is a plastic train-whistle simulator that I bought from the Railway Museum in York - and it is very authentic - triple tone and quite pleasing. It always generates a pleasant response from walkers on greenways etc. I'd say that it was useless on the road - I have to use one hand to put it to my mouth, there's the time delay between pocket and mouth, and I don't think that motorists would notice it.

I think that the whole issue is fraught and on-road and off-road requirements are different. Something loud enough for motorists to hear (even if they'd heed it if they did hear) would be really loud for off-road.

[mjr]

That's a good bell that you have then mjr - is it like the big 'double clangers' that we used to have in days of yore? My problem with mine was that the internals always rattled as I rode along - but they certainly were louder than the tinkerbells. My experience was that pedestrians could hear it, but motorists couldn't - or they ignored it!

I've actually two that can be heard pretty well. One is an Adie rotary - yes, two clangers - but it does rattle on uneven ground. The other is a temple bell on the road bike - an azor or acor or something like that. Both can be heard by motorists, based on reactions, but like I say, you can't count on them being able to hear or, like you say, not ignoring it.

[JohnW]

That's a good bell that you have then mjr - is it like the big 'double clangers' that we used to have in days of yore? My problem with mine was that the internals always rattled as I rode along - but they certainly were louder than the tinkerbells. My experience was that pedestrians could hear it, but motorists couldn't - or they ignored it!

I've actually two that can be heard pretty well. One is an Adie rotary - yes, two clangers - but it does rattle on uneven ground. The other is a temple bell on the road bike - an azor or acor or something like that. Both can be heard by motorists, based on reactions, but like I say, you can't count on them being able to hear or, like you say, not ignoring it.

Thanks mjr. Acor do make cycling components, so worth looking up - I'll do that. I don't know what a 'temple bell' is, so maybe I'll educate myself on that also. Do either of your bells add to the space problem on drop handlebars? I find that two Hope Vision 1 lights and a computer take up all the available space.

EDIT -
Further to my comments above, I've looked on the Acor site - there's some interesting looking bells on that! I've not looked at your 'Adie', but constant jangling would be anathema to me!

[mjr]

Thanks mjr. Acor do make cycling components, so worth looking up - I'll do that. I don't know what a 'temple bell' is, so maybe I'll educate myself on that also. Do either of your bells add to the space problem on drop handlebars? I find that two Hope Vision 1 lights and a computer take up all the available space.

The Adie is on porteur bars next to the brake lever, which isn't a space I ever grip (I routinely grab the front of the bars when I want to be more aero and the bends for control). The Acor is stem-mounted - I think there were both clamp and threadless spacer versions - so doesn't take up any handlebar space. The light on my road bike is right next to the clamp, but I think that's become more difficult with oversize clamp areas and funny bar shapes. My computer (well, phone) goes in a bag.

[JohnW]

Thanks mjr. Acor do make cycling components, so worth looking up - I'll do that. I don't know what a 'temple bell' is, so maybe I'll educate myself on that also. Do either of your bells add to the space problem on drop handlebars? I find that two Hope Vision 1 lights and a computer take up all the available space.

The Adie is on porteur bars next to the brake lever, which isn't a space I ever grip (I routinely grab the front of the bars when I want to be more aero and the bends for control). The Acor is stem-mounted - I think there were both clamp and threadless spacer versions - so doesn't take up any handlebar space. The light on my road bike is right next to the clamp, but I think that's become more difficult with oversize clamp areas and funny bar shapes. My computer (well, phone) goes in a bag.

Ah - right - thank you for that.