compulsary bells back on the agenda!

[thirdcrank]

Compulsory bike bell law could return

The compulsory bike bell law being referred to here was the regulation requiring bells and some other stuff like spoke reflectors at point-of-sale which the link suggests at some point were being considered for scrapping. I'm not clear whether or not they ever got round to scrapping it and I don't care enough to find out.

Bells on bikes is a hackle-raiser, of course, so it's perfect click-bait for an internet cycling advertising site. There seem to be loads of urban myths about bells but I don't remember it ever being compulsory to have one fitted. I have a vague recollection that when the BCF was formed from the amalgamation of the NCU and the BLRC its rules required a bell.

Even the HC is wishy-washy:

Rule 66
You should ... be considerate of other road users, particularly blind and partially sighted pedestrians. Let them know you are there when necessary, for example, by ringing your bell if you have one. It is recommended that a bell be fitted.

[Cunobelin]

~Didn't the regs say "audible warning device" as opposed to "bell"?

I remember the argument being that the rider was the audible device

[fixerupper]

When I lived in Lancaster ,my commute to and from the workshop was along the canal towpath ...always tricky coming up behind pedestrians with earbuds never quite knowing which side to pass them ...to ring or not to ring... or to say in a friendly voice "Good morning" or" Good evening"...I got a mixed reaction .

[thirdcrank]

~Didn't the regs say "audible warning device" as opposed to "bell"?

I remember the argument being that the rider was the audible device

I don't know what the regs for pedal cycles might have said. My dear old dad used to have some expression like "audible means of approach" but this is what I had in mind about urban myths. I'm pretty sure there's never been anything covering things like a horse and cart, which is a vehicle. I think the chap on the roof of a mail coach playing a version of Post Horn Gallop was an optional extra.

If ever there had been a bell-on-bikes-when-being-ridden law, somebody would surely be able to quote it. The legislation repealing it would also be known and quoted. If somebody can authoratitively correct me, I'll be happy to have the addition to my knowledge, but I feel no urge to research something so insignificant.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

I find bells are more useful off road. But considering bells with a good ping cost under a fiver just what is all the fuss about?

You can ring your bell at me as much as you like and I wouldn't hear it. Using your voice or a brake pedal would be much more effective.

My opinion is opposite.
A bell is a bell is a bell, if some think it brings out a green eyed monster in whom its directed at, even if its just early warning which in my main use.
Unfortunately I find voice can easily be ignored as a person with their back to you won't necessarily know who its directed at / can ignore also without question.
Bell is a warning for all who hear, or it should be?
I let them use their voice and hope its not too unpleasant.
That my view on it.
Like others a cough is sometimes more effective than a polite excuse me.
I don't pander to the fact that I have to say good morning etc to be noticed, only to be ignored.

[thirdcrank]

This general subject seems to resurface more frequently than cycle light reviews in magazines, which are usually restricted to early Autumn.

It's only a couple of weeks ago since we had the "air horn to deter pedestrians" thread (where at least one "bells-over-my-dead-body" poster thought they were ok.)

Anyway, it's occurred to me that I posted on there that a literal reading of the current regs forbids the fitting or use of bells on all but emergency vehicles.

viewtopic.php?p=1241305#p1241305

Here's the reg, with the relevant bits in bold (remember that a pedal cycle is a vehicle. This reg refers to vehicles, not motor vehicles or mechanically propelled vehicles.)

Use of audible warning instruments

99.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, any horn, gong, bell or siren fitted to or carried on a vehicle which is—

(a) stationary on a road, at any time, other than at times of danger due to another moving vehicle on or near the road; or

(b) in motion on a restricted road, between 23.30 hours and 07.00 hours in the following morning.

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1)(a) do not apply in respect of the sounding of a reversing alarm when the vehicle to which it is fitted is about to move backwards and its engine is running.

(3) No person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, on a road any reversing alarm fitted to a vehicle—

(a) unless the vehicle is a goods vehicle which has a maximum gross weight not less than 2000 kg, a bus, engineering plant, or a works truck; or

(b) if the sound of the alarm is likely to be confused with a sound emitted in the operation of a pedestrian crossing established, or having effect as if established, under Part III of the 1984 Act.

(4) Subject to the provisions of the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded a gong, bell, siren or two-tone horn, fitted to or otherwise carried on a vehicle (whether it is stationary or not).

(5) Nothing in paragraph (1) or (4) shall prevent the sounding of—

(a) an instrument or apparatus fitted to, or otherwise carried on, a vehicle at a time when the vehicle is being used for one of the purposes specified in regulation 37(5) and it is necessary or desirable to do so either to indicate to other road users the urgency of the purposes for which the vehicle is being used, or to warn other road users of the presence of the vehicle on the road; or

(b) a horn (not being a two-tone horn), bell, gong or siren—

(i) to raise alarm as to the theft or attempted theft of the vehicle or its contents; or

(ii) in the case of a bus, to summon help for the driver, the conductor or an inspector.

(6) Subject to the provisions of section 62 of the Control of Pollution Act 1974 and notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (1) and (4) above, a person may, between 12.00 hours and 19.00 hours, sound or cause or permit to be sounded an instrument or apparatus, other than a two-tone horn, fitted to or otherwise carried on a vehicle, being an instrument or apparatus designed to emit a sound for the purpose of informing members of the public that the vehicle is conveying goods for sale, if, when the apparatus or instrument is sounded, it is sounded only for that purpose.

(7) For the purposes of this regulation the expressions which are referred to in regulation 37(10) have the meanings there given to them and the expression “restricted road” in paragraph (1) means a road which is a restricted road for the purpose of section 81 of the 1984 Act.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986 ... on/99/made

"Younger readers" may be unaware that bells used to be the standard warning system on emergency vehicle. I don't know why it mentions gongs.
================================================================

PS It looks as though anybody still selling ice cream from a trike is ok pinging "Popeye" or the Cornetto theme (O sole mio, to you mate.)

[Cunobelin]

This general subject seems to resurface more frequently than cycle light reviews in magazines, which are usually restricted to early Autumn.

It's only a couple of weeks ago since we had the "air horn to deter pedestrians" thread (where at least one "bells-over-my-dead-body" poster thought they were ok.)

Anyway, it's occurred to me that I posted on there that a literal reading of the current regs forbids the fitting or use of bells on all but emergency vehicles.

viewtopic.php?p=1241305#p1241305

Here's the reg, with the relevant bits in bold (remember that a pedal cycle is a vehicle. This reg refers to vehicles, not motor vehicles or mechanically propelled vehicles.)

Use of audible warning instruments

99.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, any horn, gong, bell or siren fitted to or carried on a vehicle which is—

(a) stationary on a road, at any time, other than at times of danger due to another moving vehicle on or near the road; or

(b) in motion on a restricted road, between 23.30 hours and 07.00 hours in the following morning.

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1)(a) do not apply in respect of the sounding of a reversing alarm when the vehicle to which it is fitted is about to move backwards and its engine is running.

(3) No person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, on a road any reversing alarm fitted to a vehicle—

(a) unless the vehicle is a goods vehicle which has a maximum gross weight not less than 2000 kg, a bus, engineering plant, or a works truck; or

(b) if the sound of the alarm is likely to be confused with a sound emitted in the operation of a pedestrian crossing established, or having effect as if established, under Part III of the 1984 Act.

(4) Subject to the provisions of the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded a gong, bell, siren or two-tone horn, fitted to or otherwise carried on a vehicle (whether it is stationary or not).

(5) Nothing in paragraph (1) or (4) shall prevent the sounding of—

(a) an instrument or apparatus fitted to, or otherwise carried on, a vehicle at a time when the vehicle is being used for one of the purposes specified in regulation 37(5) and it is necessary or desirable to do so either to indicate to other road users the urgency of the purposes for which the vehicle is being used, or to warn other road users of the presence of the vehicle on the road; or

(b) a horn (not being a two-tone horn), bell, gong or siren—

(i) to raise alarm as to the theft or attempted theft of the vehicle or its contents; or

(ii) in the case of a bus, to summon help for the driver, the conductor or an inspector.

(6) Subject to the provisions of section 62 of the Control of Pollution Act 1974 and notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (1) and (4) above, a person may, between 12.00 hours and 19.00 hours, sound or cause or permit to be sounded an instrument or apparatus, other than a two-tone horn, fitted to or otherwise carried on a vehicle, being an instrument or apparatus designed to emit a sound for the purpose of informing members of the public that the vehicle is conveying goods for sale, if, when the apparatus or instrument is sounded, it is sounded only for that purpose.

(7) For the purposes of this regulation the expressions which are referred to in regulation 37(10) have the meanings there given to them and the expression “restricted road” in paragraph (1) means a road which is a restricted road for the purpose of section 81 of the 1984 Act.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986 ... on/99/made

"Younger readers" may be unaware that bells used to be the standard warning system on emergency vehicle. I don't know why it mentions gongs.
================================================================

PS It looks as though anybody still selling ice cream from a trike is ok pinging "Popeye" or the Cornetto theme (O sole mio, to you mate.)

Back in th ‘70s I was a St John Ambulance Cadet

Our Ambulance was ex-MOD and had been through several “more important “ units before we got it... but had that bell on the front

Drivers still understood the meaning and we never had any issues with traffic

[thirdcrank]

Around here, fire engines had a bell on the cab roof much more recently, but I couldn't be precise about when they were removed. I do remember an ad in the local press inviting tender offers to buy them giving details of the weight of brass(?) involved.

[Steady rider]

I use my brake levers by flicking them, that make a click, click, etc to warn people but I don't know anyone else that does this.

[tatanab]

I use my brake levers by flicking them, that make a click, click, etc to warn people but I don't know anyone else that does this.

That used to be the standard warning to club mates in front of you that they were not going fast enough for your taste. So the sound works at close range but I cannot imagine a pedestrian 50 yards away or more hearing anything. Voice every time, with or without venom as need be.

[Steady rider]

Depend on wind direction and their hearing and if walking a dog that generally hears better than people. If no head movement more caution is provided. Also 'excuse me' type comments I use frequently. A bell would probably be better but with holding the brake levers I can probably slow down quicker if needed.

[thirdcrank]

What MAFAC Racers lacked in stopping power, they made up for with the loud noise you could make by releasing the levers. IME, SIS brake levers and dual pivots are useless at making a noise, but are very effective at stopping a bike. I don't know about Campag, or Campy for that matter.

[Steady rider]

As an alternative for the HOUSE OF LORDS to discuss, could a member of the Lord request all roundabouts to have CCTV installed to monitor all traffic, so that all accidents are recorded. Some drivers go too fast and hit cyclists. CCTV would help slow them down.

ps if anyone can record brake levers sound levels v bells that may be of interest.

[The utility cyclist]

I find bells are more useful off road. But considering bells with a good ping cost under a fiver just what is all the fuss about?

The fuss is being forced to have one by threat of penalty, especially when said item has no proof of effectiveness in its own right nor indeed over and above slowing down/proceeding with caution when around those that are supposedly to benefit from the item or even over a simple vocal warning.

Yet again as per Australia and other places that threaten punishment for not having one fitted it ignores other far more pressing matters and is unequal in application to other groups in society with respect higher and more oft danger presented to others. We talk about equal responsibility and yet it's people on bikes having to modify their behaviour, what they wear or have adorned on their bike through threat of penalty or be blamed for inaction/actions of others. And all for something that like helmets and hi-vis has next to zero effect in terms of safety.

[gaz]

If ever there had been a bell-on-bikes-when-being-ridden law, somebody would surely be able to quote it.

Road Vehicles (Traffic) Regulations 1933 regulation 7. Applies in Northern Ireland, I do not believe it has ever applied in England, Wales or Scotland.