Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

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mjr
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby mjr » 3 Jul 2018, 10:36pm

That statement switching off the worst terms has been added since my earlier comment.

The Egress privacy policy it mentions also contains some nasties, but not the one letting them sell your videos. Worst one there is probably the demand that you get permission from anyone in your video, which I suspect filmed drivers won't have given, but they also say they'll Spam you if they can see how to do so legally.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

thirdcrank
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby thirdcrank » 4 Jul 2018, 7:07am

I can't help thinking that this is similar to the crowd-funding of the mats: there was a suggestion from somewhere that the lack of £££ to buy them was preventing national adoption of the close pass initiative. Problems with easy transfer of footage are suggested to be at the root of not following up third party video footage.

The reality is that dealing with bad driving is no longer a priority.

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mcmahonsport
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Nextbase National Portal for uploading video to Police

Postby mcmahonsport » 4 Jul 2018, 11:44am

This is supported by cyclinguk and Brake and I uploaded a video and witness statement to Nottinghamshire Police today.

Whn the upload is complete you then have to register for a secure email site https://reader.egress.com/ to recieve a copy of the statement.

It then suggests a link can be sent to the Police--however, there is no link and it does not confirm whether it has been sent to the police or not.

It seems to be a 'Black Hole'.

Has anyone been succesful with the site and can offer any suggestions?

Link: https://www.nextbase.co.uk/national-dash-cam-safety-portal/
McMahon, Nottingham, UK

Bez
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby Bez » 4 Jul 2018, 5:00pm

I had a bunch of clarification yesterday via Twitter and email. Long story short:

- The issue of licensing appears to not to be a problem: Nextbase claim that no videos uploaded to NDSP go via their servers, and basically they've stuck the wrong T&Cs at the bottom of the page.
- The portal on the Hampshire site is indeed a national portal: the majority of forces are apparently intending to migrate to it.
- I'm not entirely sure how/whether the two portals will co-exist.

While we're here, let's check in on how the current legislation is performing:

https://twitter.com/wmprhrt/status/1014 ... 12352?s=21

;)

reohn2
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby reohn2 » 4 Jul 2018, 6:20pm

thirdcrank wrote:I can't help thinking that this is similar to the crowd-funding of the mats: there was a suggestion from somewhere that the lack of £££ to buy them was preventing national adoption of the close pass initiative. Problems with easy transfer of footage are suggested to be at the root of not following up third party video footage.

The reality is that dealing with bad driving is no longer a priority.


That's been the case for donkeys ears with Cheshire and Greater Manchester police.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby thirdcrank » 5 Jul 2018, 10:41am

Bez wrote: ... While we're here, let's check in on how the current legislation is performing: ...


This is another example of what I describe as the opposite ends of the spyglass. IIRC, you have been to the presentation and you have been impressed by the dedication, enthusiasm and professionalism of the small squad of officers involved. I can easily understand that because I've had the privilege of working with such people. I've also had experience of knowing how easy it is for people to big-up what they do with no intention of deceiving anybody. (Read some dog handlers reports and you might be amazed that mutts have almost learned to bark "You are not obliged to say anything ..." rather than the usual "sausages.") Measuring the effects of policing is difficult.

As I keep saying, all I see is a few survivors from an earlier age showing what can be done but with little wider interest to do the same elsewhere, even if expressions like Operation Close Pass are bandied about in media releases. If there was much of this going on, that link would be an everyday occurrence: nothing to right home about.

(Dogs barking "sausages" featured on Esther Rantzen's That's Life.)

Bez
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby Bez » 5 Jul 2018, 10:57am

I agree, and you're making the same point as I am: results depend on one thing, which is the will to enforce the law to tackle this sort of driving behaviour.

Where that will exists, the existing law is fully effective.

Where that will does not exist, neither the existing law nor a distance-based law are significantly effective.

The issue here is one of barking up the wrong tree: time and energy are finite. The time and energy of the pro-cycling public is usefully spent convincing law enforcers of the need and benefits of spending their time and energy taking action against close passes; the same time and energy is not usefully spent convincing politicians that they should spend their time and energy rewriting legislation (especially as political gains like these always have associated costs of politicians tending to balance them with gains for opposing lobbyists, which in this case would IMO likely result in a major own goal).

reohn2
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby reohn2 » 5 Jul 2018, 11:15am

Bez
I think you're right,though the mammoth task is getting police forces to take dangerous driving seriously and having the manpower to do so.Also the penalties need to be a LOT harsher.
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby Bmblbzzz » 5 Jul 2018, 11:28am

There are two secondary factors affecting enforcement: a new law might give impetus to enforcement, especially if it is easier to define a contravention, and the publicity surrounding a new law might change driving habits at least in new drivers. Enforcement is never going to catch more than a few (at least until we have some sort of self-reporting black box system with cameras on all motor vehicles), so in the long term education to change habits might prove more effective.

thirdcrank
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby thirdcrank » 5 Jul 2018, 11:34am

Although party politicians, especially Home Secretaries, like to hide behind the operational independence of chief constables, the reality is that they limit that independence as much as possible. Home Office inspections have always - and understandably - been a part of that. It's now done by TM's creature the HMICFRS.

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk ... /about-us/

You could flounder about in that website all day and not learn much, but the type of thing that jumps out of me is that protecting the public from crime doesn't seem to include protection from bad driving. As I've already posted if something's not measured, it won't be done.

TM's other creatures, police and crime commissioners tend to be party politicians who understandably grind their own axes, and few seem to have traffic policing on their "to do" lists. In spite of TM's proposal of directly appointed chief constables from overseas, the military or elsewhere, at the moment AFAIK, they are still appointed from UK police forces and subject to Home Office approval. None of that suggests to me that there is any likelihood of a chief constable going against the trend in any significant way.

Steady rider
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby Steady rider » 5 Jul 2018, 3:28pm

There may be a half way measure to having a stronger legal position and discouraging close passing. Something like the following in the Highway Code -
Motorists must give cyclists suitable passing clearance so as to not to raise safety concerns and should provide at least 1m clearance, in a 30 mph zone or at lower speeds, and more clearance at higher passing speeds. Failure to provide suitable clearances can result in prosecution.

reohn2
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby reohn2 » 5 Jul 2018, 6:08pm

Steady rider wrote:There may be a half way measure to having a stronger legal position and discouraging close passing. Something like the following in the Highway Code -
Motorists must give cyclists suitable passing clearance so as to not to raise safety concerns and should provide at least 1m clearance, in a 30 mph zone or at lower speeds, and more clearance at higher passing speeds. Failure to provide suitable clearances can result in prosecution.

The problem there as has been pointed out is the last sentence.
If the driving public know there's very little chance of being caught then they won't abide by the law.It's illegal to use a hand held phone whilst driving but I see it multiple times every day I use the road.
The problem is one of enforcement which is woefully inadequate which has been stated in many way up thread
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Steady rider
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby Steady rider » 5 Jul 2018, 6:48pm

Trying to solve two problems at the same time makes it harder to progress. Try to get the right legal framework to start with, this would help in compensation cases I expect, and enforcement levels is really a separate issue. The government responds or may not to situations. Having the right legal framework is relatively inexpensive compared with allocating hundreds of extra police officers. Policing can be made more effective without much extra cost if the legal aspects are improved.

reohn2
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby reohn2 » 5 Jul 2018, 7:11pm

I think we'll have agree to differ.
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Bez
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Re: Close-pass prevention - Well I never!!!

Postby Bez » 5 Jul 2018, 8:22pm

Steady rider wrote:Trying to solve two problems at the same time makes it harder to progress.


The point that keeps being ignored is that, in terms of enforcement at the very least, there is only one problem. And it is, demonstrably, not the thing you're focused on.