Manchester Going Dutch

bikerwaser
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Manchester Going Dutch

Postby bikerwaser » 15 Jul 2018, 10:03am

Not sure if this has been posted. (I find the search facility on here to be very poor).

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/late ... nes-384277

mikeyg123
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby mikeyg123 » 17 Jul 2018, 12:59pm

Sounds great but:

Will the lanes be continuous without obstacles so you can make good progress or will they stop for crossings, bus stops or just randomly start and stop for no reason at all?
Will you be able to join and leave the path everywhere you need to? (unlike some near me where I've never found the way onto them)
Will there be light controlled junctions where you wait while the cars go first, regret not having been on the road itself and never use it again?
Where paths join the road will the road enlarge to accommodate the stream of cyclists or will it force you to look over your shoulder and merge into moving traffic in the space of about 1m?
Will people walk in them - and then get angry about the cyclists using the marked cycle lane? (people aren't used to them here and aren't very tollerant compared with other countries ime)

Unless these issues are thought about and addressed by the designers then most cyclists will prefer to stay on the road. It'll be a huge waste of money and the car drivers will get more angry that the cyclists are using "their" road and making them 3 seconds later for their weight watchers meeting.

Are any of these designers ever actual cyclists that travel over 20mph, or do they just ask their granny what she does when she bimbles down to the shops, stays in the gutter and only turns left?

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mjr
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby mjr » 17 Jul 2018, 1:30pm

I think it's "don't know yet" to most of those but I'm fairly sure that Boardman chap leading the project rides a bike.

https://mappinggm.org.uk/beelines/ if you want to comment on the plans so far.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

mikeyg123
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby mikeyg123 » 17 Jul 2018, 1:42pm

Excellent news :p
Last edited by mikeyg123 on 17 Jul 2018, 2:31pm, edited 1 time in total.

pete75
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby pete75 » 17 Jul 2018, 1:52pm

mjr wrote:I think it's "don't know yet" to most of those but I'm fairly sure that Boardman chap leading the project rides a bike.



I've heard tell he may even go over 20mph on his bike.

amaferanga
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby amaferanga » 18 Jul 2018, 6:55am

If you look at the mapping link above you'll see that for now it's a disaster because each local authority has come up with what they think is needed to get people moving. So for example, Big Ticket routes on main roads ends abruptly at LA boundaries throwing cyclists onto busy, hostile roads.

This is a first draft map proposed by each LA so it will undoubtedly improve, but it's more than just a little bit concerning that any LA think their proposals even come close to making the region cycling and walking friendly. As an example, in my immediate area the map has a few token Beelines that start nowhere and go nowhere, while the LA ignored the busy direct routes connecting towns that desperately need segregated cycle ways to make them suitable for cycling.

No doubt at all that Boardman and his team know exactly what is needed, but when it's left to LAs to implement that still have the mindset that we must build new roads to cut congestion (!) it's difficult to see how they will be bold enough to build the big projects that will impact motorised traffic and be opposed by the majority of folk that are quite happy driving everywhere.

mikeyg123
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby mikeyg123 » 18 Jul 2018, 11:47am

I know exactly what you mean about cycle lanes ending at the LA boundary
please post constructive comments using the link above - it's the only way to improve things

amaferanga
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby amaferanga » 18 Jul 2018, 2:26pm

I've commented on the map a lot for the areas I'm most familiar with. I seem to be the only person commenting on my area though which is disappointing. I've tried to be constructive, but my frustration at how pathetic the proposals are by Bolton LA have got the better of me at times. It's very evident that these plans have had little or no input up to this point from anyone who is familiar with many of the roads and streets from the perspective of walking or riding a bike.

Pete Owens
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby Pete Owens » 31 Aug 2018, 12:03am

Given that this:
http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/September2018.htm
Is an example of the quality of the much hyped Wilmslow Road cycleway - which is designated an "existing" beeline I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

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RickH
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby RickH » 31 Aug 2018, 11:07am

Pete Owens wrote:Given that this:
http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/September2018.htm
Is an example of the quality of the much hyped Wilmslow Road cycleway - which is designated an "existing" beeline I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

That isn't typical & is at the outlying end of the route. The section through the "Curry Mile" is much better with kerb separated cycle lanes on both sides. Through the University & further towards the city there are still cycle lanes but the motor traffic is restricted to buses, taxis & permit holders (with camera enforcement). The Google streetview car car been through since it has been completed if you want a virtual look.

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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby Pete Owens » 1 Sep 2018, 12:42am

RickH wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:Given that this:
http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/September2018.htm
Is an example of the quality of the much hyped Wilmslow Road cycleway - which is designated an "existing" beeline I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

That isn't typical & is at the outlying end of the route.

It would take an extraordinary level of vindictiveness on the part of the designers to maintain that level of danger for the entire length of the route. However that is not the point. Whether or not it is typical, the engineers in Manchester did think it was a bright idea to install it. And these same people will be responsible for designing the beelines.... And when they came to asses the cities roads to decide what were lines of severence and what were beelines they decided that this particular example met their "exacting " standards for inclusion within the existing beeline network. And if this obviously dangerous nonsense is worthy of inclusion it is difficult to imagine how bad a facility would have to be to be rejected.

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RickH
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Re: Manchester Going Dutch

Postby RickH » 1 Sep 2018, 12:53am

Pete Owens wrote:
RickH wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:Given that this:
http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/September2018.htm
Is an example of the quality of the much hyped Wilmslow Road cycleway - which is designated an "existing" beeline I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

That isn't typical & is at the outlying end of the route.

It would take an extraordinary level of vindictiveness on the part of the designers to maintain that level of danger for the entire length of the route. However that is not the point. Whether or not it is typical, the engineers in Manchester did think it was a bright idea to install it. And these same people will be responsible for designing the beelines.... And when they came to asses the cities roads to decide what were lines of severence and what were beelines they decided that this particular example met their "exacting " standards for inclusion within the existing beeline network. And if this obviously dangerous nonsense is worthy of inclusion it is difficult to imagine how bad a facility would have to be to be rejected.

Although, if you check on streetview, that bit has been the same since at least September 2008 (link) so is really a relic of an earlier time. Hopefully that bit will get improved in time too, but I don't know any details of what is planned & when.