Proposed cycling ban High St, Rugby

[thirdcrank]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-engl ... 069df854ab

This may interest locals. I've had a quick look on streetview and it looks like the usual miserable mixture of what passes as a High Street these days. I see that even M&S have decamped.

[horizon]

It should interest more than locals. It's happened all over the country. Pedestrianisation is actually a euphemism for motorisation: a ring road is built, car parks enlarged, cyclists banned. What was once a public street amenable to cyclists and an important route (if not the central route) through a town to other places in that town or beyond has become a shopping centre. Given that that is what the motorists come for, it's no skin off their nose. For cyclists it means either not cycling, taking the ring road or using a car. It's obviously therefore detrimental to cycling overall, if that is what you want. But then intelligence is not a well-known trait of the British.

[661-Pete]

In our town centre, cycling has been banned from the pedestrianised areas for as long as we've been living here (over 36 years). Not a problem for us, because there are many access points on the edge to which you can cycle, and the distances traversed over the pedestrian areas are relatively short.

This may not be the case in larger towns, of course.

Personally, I'm in favour of no-cycling zones in principle. Seeing how certain teenage POBs behave, tearing along at high speed and harassing pedestrians, I'm not likely to change my mind. One might argue that these kids have no respect for the law anyway. True. But in theory they could be pulled up. All it needs is a copper in the right spot....

[mjr]

The reckless teenagers could be pulled up anyway and won't take any notice of a ban anyway. The people stopped are legal responsible cyclists trying to do some shopping without bringing yet another car in. Being abler to park close is a big thing that makes cycling more convenient and more competitive on time than if you have to walk from the car park.

Government policy has been that cycling should be allowed in most pedestrianised areas since at least 1987 and some LTN then. It stinks if Rugby's still not implementing it.

[drossall]

We've got a non-existent and totally mythical bike ban. Maybe a couple of decades ago, it was decided to exclude motor traffic from our town centre on Saturdays. Flying motorbikes were put up. On the first day, a friend was stopped by the police from cycling through. I think that was sorted, but No Entry signs then appeared (completely the wrong sign, but probably thought to be something that motorists would respect).

More recently, some town centre wardens were standing by a large No Entry sign to enforce it, so I asked why when there was no event on (sometimes the roads are closed for events in the Market Square, which can be good). They told me that bikes weren't allowed through, and the police had been fining cyclists.

There is no ban on cycling on Saturdays. I've seen the traffic order.

[The utility cyclist]

In our town centre, cycling has been banned from the pedestrianised areas for as long as we've been living here (over 36 years). Not a problem for us, because there are many access points on the edge to which you can cycle, and the distances traversed over the pedestrian areas are relatively short.

This may not be the case in larger towns, of course.

Personally, I'm in favour of no-cycling zones in principle. Seeing how certain teenage POBs behave, tearing along at high speed and harassing pedestrians, I'm not likely to change my mind. One might argue that these kids have no respect for the law anyway. True. But in theory they could be pulled up. All it needs is a copper in the right spot....

define high speed and how many people have they killed/seriously injured, I don't know, say in 10 years/20 years/50 years?

I mean if we are going to have a pop at the local teens using bikes and use this as the reason to support a cycling ban I'd like to know, maybe these teens wouldn't cycle on the pavement/footway IF the road wasn't full of people with no respect for safety of others ...just a thought!

[pwa]

In our town centre, cycling has been banned from the pedestrianised areas for as long as we've been living here (over 36 years). Not a problem for us, because there are many access points on the edge to which you can cycle, and the distances traversed over the pedestrian areas are relatively short.

This may not be the case in larger towns, of course.

Personally, I'm in favour of no-cycling zones in principle. Seeing how certain teenage POBs behave, tearing along at high speed and harassing pedestrians, I'm not likely to change my mind. One might argue that these kids have no respect for the law anyway. True. But in theory they could be pulled up. All it needs is a copper in the right spot....

define high speed and how many people have they killed/seriously injured, I don't know, say in 10 years/20 years/50 years?

I mean if we are going to have a pop at the local teens using bikes and use this as the reason to support a cycling ban I'd like to know, maybe these teens wouldn't cycle on the pavement/footway IF the road wasn't full of people with no respect for safety of others ...just a thought!

They don't have to cycle on the road, they have to get off and be pedestrians when they are in crowds. I was in Cardiff yesterday and a couple of full grown adults crossed the road at a pedestrian crossing that was, at the same time, being crossed by about 20 pedestrians. They weaved about very close to pedestrians. It is unlikely that any mishap would have resulted in death, so a sense of proportion is required. But it is annoying, inconsiderate behaviour all the same. I saw another man a minute later and he had got off his bike and was walking with it through the crowds, which is what I would do in that situation.

[Graham]

[Hitchin]. . . . They told me that bikes weren't allowed through, and the police had been fining cyclists.

There is no ban on cycling on Saturdays. I've seen the traffic order.

How did you respond ?

[reohn2]

In our town centre, cycling has been banned from the pedestrianised areas for as long as we've been living here (over 36 years). Not a problem for us, because there are many access points on the edge to which you can cycle, and the distances traversed over the pedestrian areas are relatively short.

This may not be the case in larger towns, of course.

Personally, I'm in favour of no-cycling zones in principle. Seeing how certain teenage POBs behave, tearing along at high speed and harassing pedestrians, I'm not likely to change my mind. One might argue that these kids have no respect for the law anyway. True. But in theory they could be pulled up. All it needs is a copper in the right spot....

define high speed and how many people have they killed/seriously injured, I don't know, say in 10 years/20 years/50 years?

I mean if we are going to have a pop at the local teens using bikes and use this as the reason to support a cycling ban I'd like to know, maybe these teens wouldn't cycle on the pavement/footway IF the road wasn't full of people with no respect for safety of others ...just a thought!

They don't have to cycle on the road, they have to get off and be pedestrians when they are in crowds. I was in Cardiff yesterday and a couple of full grown adults crossed the road at a pedestrian crossing that was, at the same time, being crossed by about 20 pedestrians. They weaved about very close to pedestrians. It is unlikely that any mishap would have resulted in death, so a sense of proportion is required. But it is annoying, inconsiderate behaviour all the same. I saw another man a minute later and he had got off his bike and was walking with it through the crowds, which is what I would do in that situation.

I've witnessed the same sort of behaviour,it frightens old folks and young parents walking with toddlers etc.The problem is one of a lack of respect by the perpetrators and a lack of law enforcement.
High Street shopping is dying on it's feet,pedestrianisation is a way of trying to get the public there to spend money and a calm space to shop and have a chat or a coffee perhaps,idiots on bikes can be a discouragement to that end.
Of course if you're a responsible cyclist it can be an inconvenience but how long is the average pedestrianised High St?
Our local town's pedestrianised total area is approx 400m long (two streets),I don't mind walking with my bike that bit of town.

[mjr]

I've witnessed the same sort of behaviour,it frightens old folks and young parents walking with toddlers etc.The problem is one of a lack of respect by the perpetrators and a lack of law enforcement.
High Street shopping is dying on it's feet,pedestrianisation is a way of trying to get the public there to spend money and a calm space to shop and have a chat or a coffee perhaps,idiots on bikes can be a discouragement to that end.
Of course if you're a responsible cyclist it can be an inconvenience but how long is the average pedestrianised High St?
Our local town's pedestrianised total area is approx 400m long (two streets),I don't mind walking with my bike that bit of town.

Bully for you. I do mind. Our High St is long enough that since the councils irrationally reinstated the bike ban, even I've been going to the out of town shops where I can park by the door and I don't have to limp (and I do still limp a bit when carrying stuff since breaking bones in my foot a while ago) a quarter mile or whatever back to my bike with the shopping. I only visit the town centre shops near the remaining accessible cycle parks. The rest of the centre is dead to me now.

Even if I was abler, it'd still be more convenient to be able to ride up to the shop and I suspect other cyclists think the same, so bike bans are effectively telling some of the most profitable shoppers to go elsewhere and so the High St keeps dying on its feet. Bike bans just further handicap the remaining shops, discouraging shoppers from going to them, stopping people riding past and seeing what they're displaying in the windows... and unlike motorists, cyclists do generally travel slowly enough to look at windows and stop if they see something worth buying. Heck, local takeaways here post (technically flypost, I suspect) adverts on the cycleways because these are shoppers they want to attract! Why kick them out of town? Are the shops doing that well that cycling customers aren't wanted?

And even once bikes are banned, the idiots on bikes are still there and still a problem because they ignore the bans and the problem was the lack of law enforcement which remains unfixed.

[horizon]

I'm with mjr on this. Bad cycling and ASB might well be a problem. But part of that is that pedestrianisation has compelled intermingling which wasn't really necessary. These are (or were) roads to places. If poor cycling results in a total ban then bring it on for all the other roads in England: irresponsible driving by some motorists? Ban them all - great!

[mjr]

Many streets in so-called "pedestrianised" areas still have defined carriageways marked, which anyone cycling would legally be confined to by the Highways Act 18whatever. We have the absurd and dangerous situation in the centre of King's Lynn where white van man drives through the pedestrian zone quite legally at 20mph (now unimpeded by cyclists on the carriageway slowing them) but Mrs Miggins cannot legally freewheel her bike along at 8mph.

And those vans have no need to drive there in most cases, because almost all the buildings have delivery access from service roads at the rear - service roads that cycling has now been diverted onto, to dice with HGVs making deliveries looking for the correct loading bay and motorists looking for parking spaces, not vulnerable road users. It's just quicker and thereby cheaper for that transit-size vans to drive straight through. In theory, some streets have total bans even on deliveries 10am-4pm (I think) but of course it's widely flouted and unenforced. Like horizon says, surely this illegal motoring should mean that the ban on them becomes total and full-time if the same standard was applied as for cycling... but motorists get away with misbehaviour that cyclists can't.

This is probably what Rugby is in danger of sliding back to.

[thirdcrank]

I've posted several times along the lines that the private motor car has turned Central Place Theory on its head. When I started the thread, I was taking all that for granted because we've discussed the issues - including access for cycling - so often before.

What struck me here - and again it seemed so obvious that I didn't spell it out - is this is some local authority issuing a bit of a traffic management consultation but it's spun with the sensationalist, eye-catching clickbait headline
Cyclists face crackdown on no-go areas

Cyclists ... crackdown .... no-go areas.

Lock up your womenfolk!

I've no connection with the place but I saw this "news" item because it was on the England page of the BBC website: it's become national news.

[brooksby]

I was in Cardiff yesterday and a couple of full grown adults crossed the road at a pedestrian crossing that was, at the same time, being crossed by about 20 pedestrians. They weaved about very close to pedestrians. It is unlikely that any mishap would have resulted in death, so a sense of proportion is required. But it is annoying, inconsiderate behaviour all the same. I saw another man a minute later and he had got off his bike and was walking with it through the crowds, which is what I would do in that situation.

On the other hand, they'd take up more room if they were walking their bikes, and in any case about the same room as those bl00dy stupid wheeled suitcase things that everyone seems to use...

[brooksby]

[Hitchin]. . . . They told me that bikes weren't allowed through, and the police had been fining cyclists.

There is no ban on cycling on Saturdays. I've seen the traffic order.

How did you respond ?

Arkell vs Pressdram?