Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

softlips
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby softlips » 4 Aug 2018, 8:37pm

brynpoeth wrote:It is a bit of speculation cos there are not many electric vehicles yet


I think they’ll grow massively. I’m just about to change my company car and the next will be a hybrid - although demand is so high many companies aren’t accepting orders. My wife’s nephew is on his third. Everyone I know who is changing their company car or has changed in the last three months has gone hybrid.

All new London black cabs are now electric, there’s loads of them now and I’m seeing lots of electric delivery vehicles in London.

I fly into Amsterdam regularly and all the taxis that go into the airport to pick up are now electric.

pwa
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby pwa » 5 Aug 2018, 8:21am

softlips wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:It is a bit of speculation cos there are not many electric vehicles yet


I think they’ll grow massively. I’m just about to change my company car and the next will be a hybrid - although demand is so high many companies aren’t accepting orders. My wife’s nephew is on his third. Everyone I know who is changing their company car or has changed in the last three months has gone hybrid.

All new London black cabs are now electric, there’s loads of them now and I’m seeing lots of electric delivery vehicles in London.

I fly into Amsterdam regularly and all the taxis that go into the airport to pick up are now electric.

Hybrids are easier to live with because when you refuel you are just doing what you always did, sticking the nozzle in and filling with conventional petrol.

Fleet vehicles presumably have their own refueling infrastructure.

But electric charging facilities on all streets so that you have one wherever you park? Not in my lifetime. And that may mean electric leads draped over pavements, making life just that bit more difficult for the blind and the elderly.

atlas_shrugged
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby atlas_shrugged » 6 Aug 2018, 9:17am

That the current government will do nothing to actually implement the 'electric dream' itself is explicitly stated in the recent DfTs 'Road to Zero'. This document is rammed full of nasty implied threats of future enforcement actions. Here is the current favourite which will be used to inflict chargepoints everywhere:

"We want chargepoints to be easy to locate and access for all users. Existing legislation
means that the provision of chargepoints is covered by the Equality Act 2010. This
includes a reasonable adjustments duty that applies to, amongst others, a person or
organisation providing services, goods or facilities to the public".

Dft Road to Zero (aka WeAreUnhinged)

+1 to the OP

I am looking forward to listening to the legal gymnastics about why the Equalities Act does not apply to cyclists (or eCyclists) but does apply to electric Chelsea Tractor drivers.
Last edited by atlas_shrugged on 9 Aug 2018, 6:55pm, edited 1 time in total.

brooksby
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby brooksby » 6 Aug 2018, 9:38am

If you plug your electric car in to charge up, say in one of those charging points in multi storey car parks, presumably you have some sort of subscription to pay for that electricity? And if you run a big-ass power lead from your kitchen out through the front garden to your car (do they work off the mains or do you need a special charging point in your house?) then you're paying for that electricity on your household bill.

So, if they put posts up everywhere (like the old parking meters that they got rid of because they were intrusive and cluttered the urban environment) will you have to put a code in or something so they know who to bill?

thirdcrank
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Aug 2018, 10:07am

brooksby wrote:... do they work off the mains or do you need a special charging point in your house? ...


It's a special charging point outside. My nect-door-but-one neighbour had just had one fitted and so has somebody else just round the corner. I've a feeling they may be a requirement on new houses because some quite small new houses near here all have them as standard.
Last edited by thirdcrank on 6 Aug 2018, 10:58am, edited 1 time in total.

reohn2
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby reohn2 » 6 Aug 2018, 10:12am

thirdcrank wrote:
brooksby wrote:... do they work off the mains or do you need a special charging point in your house? ...


It's a special charging point outside. My nect-door-but-one neighbour had just had one fitted and so has somebody else just round the corner. I've a feeling they may be a requirement on new houses because some quite small new houses near hear all have them as standard.

Are they fed from the household elec supply through the meter?
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I cycle therefore I am.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby Cunobelin » 6 Aug 2018, 11:00am

reohn2 wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
brooksby wrote:... do they work off the mains or do you need a special charging point in your house? ...


It's a special charging point outside. My nect-door-but-one neighbour had just had one fitted and so has somebody else just round the corner. I've a feeling they may be a requirement on new houses because some quite small new houses near hear all have them as standard.

Are they fed from the household elec supply through the meter?



There is an issue even here.

I toyed with a Renault Twizy, but the expense of battery hire was more than I spend on petrol for the same milage (£55 per month)

The other thing was that whilst there were a number of electrical points that I could technically use, there were different types of connectors

Within 10 miles there were a dozen, but... Some use a normal 3 point plug, some the "Type 2" (now becoming more standard), some the CCS, The CHAdeMO,Commando, Type 1, JEVS and Tesla. So a range of cables was required at £250 each. The Twizy uses a type F (not available locally) or a standard 3 pin which were rare

Secondly even with the cables there are differences in supply. We will stick with the "Type 2" as this is becoming the industry standard (according to some sources), the supply varies from 3kW to 50kW which affects not only charging time, but whether your car's circuitry can cope. I was told that despite higher charging rates being available, you could only use the 3kW with a Twizy

In summary reply to the OP....

There will need to be a massive standardisation in connectors and battery charging currents before any of this is possible. Otherwise you may find yourself with a charger in the street lamp outside your door that you are completely unable to use

thirdcrank
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Aug 2018, 11:11am

reohn2 wrote: ... Are they fed from the household elec supply through the meter?


I don't know but I've not seen extra electric cable being laid to any of these houses. FWIW, I'm surprised that anybody would think that a domestic charging point would use anything other than the domestic electricity supply.

By coincidence, we've taken delivery of a parcel for them so if I end up passing it to them, I'll try and find out some background. I'm also surprised that there's nobody on here who has one who's posted about this.

It's all very much in the early stages, as far as I can see. Fully electric cars benefit from a big subsidy and AFAIK, are still limited in range, although the battery tech is developing. There's uncertainty about the future of hybrids. I was reading something saying that the Toyota/ Lexus system, which had been in use for quite a while now, isn't currently acceptable under the government's long-term plan. It seems Toyoate have been lobbying to get that changed, becaouse otherwise, they'll have to start again with much bigger batteries for plug-in cars.

(Cunobelin got in before me.)

Bonefishblues
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby Bonefishblues » 6 Aug 2018, 1:47pm

In my experience the Toyota plug in hybrid system is very very good indeed. I ran a Plug in Prius, and saw some huge mpg numbers, augmented by an overnight charge (good for only a max of c13-14 miles).

I investigated putting a charge point in, but in the end simply used a domestic socket.

rfryer
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby rfryer » 6 Aug 2018, 7:57pm

I'll own up to having an electric car (Nissan Leaf) and a domestic charging point.

Domestic charge points are wired through your meter. For me, a full charge is 40 kWH, costing a little under £6 (I don't have a cheap overnight tariff, yet), and good for around 150 miles.

The govt subsidises chargers to the tune of £500; some car dealers (Nisan included) will pay the balance. Total cost, fitted, would be a little under £1000.

As far as I know, most electric cars can also be charged via a three pin socket at around 3kW (tends to make the socket quite warm). Nissan include a cable for this purpose.

Some domestic chargers are arriving that are capable of sending power back into the grid, so your car can act as additional storage capacity when demand is high.

In terms of standards, most destination chargers, including home chargers, are type 2 AC. Most of these are 6kW, some supply more, but many cars can't take advantage of the extra.

Electricity from non-domestic chargers is paid through whoever runs the network to which the charger belongs. Prices range from free, to more than double the domestic tariff. Networks are also considering other schemes, like free electricity, but you have to pay for the parking.

Rapid chargers are also available, which deliver 50kW or more. These use different standards, Tesla, CCS and CHAdeMO being the main ones.

In general, the intention is that you use rapid charging to extend your range, and destination charging to top up once the car is parked. So long as battery capacity is sufficient for the typical car's average journey, you can expect that rapid chargers will remain far less common than petrol pumps, as they are only required for exceptional journeys.

thirdcrank
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Aug 2018, 8:13pm

I was on granddad's bike mechanic duty so I only had a brief chat with my neighbour about his plug-in hybrid which is a BMW btw. The external charger socket was subsidised so it came in at around £150. It takes two hours to charge the car giving a claimed range on battery only of 25 miles and he says it's more like just under 20. He also has a charger plug which will work on a standard 13 amp socket and that takes four hours to charge. It's a company car and the benefit is a better tax régime.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby Bonefishblues » 6 Aug 2018, 8:37pm

I thought that the bik was the real attraction for me, but I was very pleasantly surprised at how useful that 13-14 miles of battery charge was because you can choose how and when to deploy it. I was regularly posting overall 85-90 mpg on my regular 55 mile commute down the M40. The battery charge was costing me about 18p on E7 overnight rates and my then employer put in an outside socket for me.

I would have another in a heartbeat, but the cost of entry s/h isn't justifiable.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby Cunobelin » 6 Aug 2018, 8:59pm

IIRC from my research

A mains supply charging a car overnight will only supply about 50 miles of travel

To get a full charge requires a larger current and these are at specific places.

rfryer
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby rfryer » 6 Aug 2018, 9:08pm

If overnight means 8 hrs, then a standard 6kW charger will provide around 150 miles range, and a 3 pin socket around half that.

brooksby
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Re: Electric car charging to kill off segregated cycle lanes

Postby brooksby » 7 Aug 2018, 3:56pm

Thanks for all this, people :D - I hadn't realised quite how these electric vehicles worked.