Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

BobSweet
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Joined: 19 Aug 2007, 1:38pm

Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby BobSweet » 10 Aug 2018, 5:18pm

Any chance someone in Cycling UK could talk to the train companies so that we get seat reservations near the cycle spaces on trains. We keep getting messages about looking after your belongings on the train, then you get seat reservations in one coach and cycle space reservations in another coach. This should be possible as you can ask for other things, table, toilet etc.

jgurney
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby jgurney » 10 Aug 2018, 9:11pm

Yes, where cycle carriage is in passenger accommodation (e.g. on Transpennine trains) that would make very good sense.

It would not be so important where there is separate cycle accommodation, such as on HSTs, sleepers and 225s (esp. 225s as the cycle accommodation is next to first class).

atoz
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby atoz » 11 Aug 2018, 9:45am

BobSweet wrote:Any chance someone in Cycling UK could talk to the train companies so that we get seat reservations near the cycle spaces on trains. We keep getting messages about looking after your belongings on the train, then you get seat reservations in one coach and cycle space reservations in another coach. This should be possible as you can ask for other things, table, toilet etc.


Cycle reservations can sometimes be a ploy to discourage taking cycles on trains- Transpennine Express is the most recent blatant example Just travel on their so called expresses (3 coach DMu's) and you realise why they want to do this- standing room only on these trains at peak period. Back under BR the same service (Manchester Piccadilly- Leeds) this service was around 6-7 coaches with guard space, loco hauled- only stopped being like this near the end of BR, when they were gearing up to be privatised- they got rid of the old stock and subsituted 3 coach DMUs.

The only way we will ever get reasonable space for cycles on trains is a return to public ownership. Companies such as First will never do it. They had to be taken to court to accmmodate wheelchair users properly on buses, so I wouldn't hold my breath. They've even tried to deny disabled users access completely to some of their trains. So much for the DDA.

I posted about this subject some time ago at https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=122245&hilit=trains - worth a look

bikepacker
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby bikepacker » 11 Aug 2018, 12:19pm

atoz wrote:The only way we will ever get reasonable space for cycles on trains is a return to public ownership.


Even then it will never happen.

As part of the campaign for upgrading the Cotswold Line I along with other CTC representatives had meetings with rail companies and National Rail. It was pointed out to us on more than one occasion the amount of complaints they get from passengers about bikes taking up too much space. Also they often stated, providing bike space is uneconomical for all the rail operators. These would still be reasons for not increasing cycle space even in a return to public ownership.
There is your way. There is my way. But there is no "the way".

nomisp
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby nomisp » 11 Aug 2018, 9:28pm

Hi, I have been on a number of Virgin services and quite often they have 2 or 4 seats reserved for cyclists at the end of the train where your cycle is stored . I usually sit in them because it gives me peace of mind over the security of my bike even though I have reserved seat elsewhere on the train . Because you need to have a member of Virgin staff to undo the exit door this also is an extra form of security for your bike . The only problem , sometimes, is finding out from Virgin staff what end of the train the cycle storage is going to be located , on a couple of occasions I have had to rush the length of the train to get my bike on . Nomisp

DaveGos
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby DaveGos » 11 Aug 2018, 11:31pm

Booking a ticket and cycle reservation for a single trip on Virgin took me 25 mins through their Indian call centre. Its easier at stations , but you need to look prices up on the internet first to get fairs that are any where near affordable

Slowroad
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby Slowroad » 12 Aug 2018, 7:33pm

Hi, I have been on a number of Virgin services and quite often they have 2 or 4 seats reserved for cyclists at the end of the train where your cycle is stored . I usually sit in them because it gives me peace of mind over the security of my bike even though I have reserved seat elsewhere on the train . Because you need to have a member of Virgin staff to undo the exit door this also is an extra form of security for your bike . The only problem , sometimes, is finding out from Virgin staff what end of the train the cycle storage is going to be located , on a couple of occasions I have had to rush the length of the train to get my bike on . Nomisp

If there's staff on the platform, ask them (smiling accommodatingly...) which end to wait. They might not know till they see the train, there's something about a yellow rectangle which shows where the first class carraiges are, and the cycle space is at the other end.
(Now just wait till someone who knows a lot more about trains tells me "it's not quite like that..." ! :D
“My two favourite things in life are libraries and bicycles. They both move people forward without wasting anything. The perfect day: riding a bike to the library.”
― Peter Golkin

brynpoeth
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby brynpoeth » 12 Aug 2018, 7:56pm

Traditionally a yellow stripe above the windows denotes First Class
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love the three Es: enforcement, enforcement & enforcement

softlips
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby softlips » 13 Aug 2018, 8:38am

Slowroad wrote:
Hi, I have been on a number of Virgin services and quite often they have 2 or 4 seats reserved for cyclists at the end of the train where your cycle is stored . I usually sit in them because it gives me peace of mind over the security of my bike even though I have reserved seat elsewhere on the train . Because you need to have a member of Virgin staff to undo the exit door this also is an extra form of security for your bike . The only problem , sometimes, is finding out from Virgin staff what end of the train the cycle storage is going to be located , on a couple of occasions I have had to rush the length of the train to get my bike on . Nomisp

If there's staff on the platform, ask them (smiling accommodatingly...) which end to wait. They might not know till they see the train, there's something about a yellow rectangle which shows where the first class carraiges are, and the cycle space is at the other end.
(Now just wait till someone who knows a lot more about trains tells me "it's not quite like that..." ! :D


Depends on the train, the electric ones have the cycle spaces at the First Class end, diesels have it at the other end. I was informed of this after having to run past all sixteen carriages the other week.

softlips
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby softlips » 13 Aug 2018, 8:39am

softlips wrote:
Slowroad wrote:
Hi, I have been on a number of Virgin services and quite often they have 2 or 4 seats reserved for cyclists at the end of the train where your cycle is stored . I usually sit in them because it gives me peace of mind over the security of my bike even though I have reserved seat elsewhere on the train . Because you need to have a member of Virgin staff to undo the exit door this also is an extra form of security for your bike . The only problem , sometimes, is finding out from Virgin staff what end of the train the cycle storage is going to be located , on a couple of occasions I have had to rush the length of the train to get my bike on . Nomisp

If there's staff on the platform, ask them (smiling accommodatingly...) which end to wait. They might not know till they see the train, there's something about a yellow rectangle which shows where the first class carraiges are, and the cycle space is at the other end.
(Now just wait till someone who knows a lot more about trains tells me "it's not quite like that..." ! :D


Depends on the train, the electric ones have the cycle spaces at the First Class end, diesels have it at the other end. I was informed of this after having to run past all sixteen carriages the other week.


Note: this is East Coast.

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RickH
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby RickH » 13 Aug 2018, 1:56pm

softlips wrote:
Slowroad wrote:
Hi, I have been on a number of Virgin services and quite often they have 2 or 4 seats reserved for cyclists at the end of the train where your cycle is stored . I usually sit in them because it gives me peace of mind over the security of my bike even though I have reserved seat elsewhere on the train . Because you need to have a member of Virgin staff to undo the exit door this also is an extra form of security for your bike . The only problem , sometimes, is finding out from Virgin staff what end of the train the cycle storage is going to be located , on a couple of occasions I have had to rush the length of the train to get my bike on . Nomisp

If there's staff on the platform, ask them (smiling accommodatingly...) which end to wait. They might not know till they see the train, there's something about a yellow rectangle which shows where the first class carraiges are, and the cycle space is at the other end.
(Now just wait till someone who knows a lot more about trains tells me "it's not quite like that..." ! :D


Depends on the train, the electric ones have the cycle spaces at the First Class end, diesels have it at the other end. I was informed of this after having to run past all sixteen carriages the other week.


On the West Coast line the bike spaces are at the opposite end to 1st class unless it is 2 voyagers hooked up together in which case there are 2 bike compartments but they can be in any of the possible configurations. It is worth making your presence known to the staff in advance, particularly if they have to unlock the space for you, as they will be able to check which way round things should be (& usually will be).

bikepacker
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby bikepacker » 13 Aug 2018, 3:48pm

Slowroad wrote:They might not know till they see the train, there's something about a yellow rectangle which shows where the first class carraiges are, and the cycle space is at the other end.
(Now just wait till someone who knows a lot more about trains tells me "it's not quite like that..." ! :D


You are correct. The yellow rectangle between the train buffers denotes 1st class. Always worth finding out what type of cycle space and the location on your intended train. Then as it approaches the platform look for the rectangle (if none then 1st class is at the rear) and move your bike to the likely position.
There is your way. There is my way. But there is no "the way".

atoz
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby atoz » 15 Aug 2018, 5:49pm

bikepacker wrote:
atoz wrote:The only way we will ever get reasonable space for cycles on trains is a return to public ownership.


Even then it will never happen.

As part of the campaign for upgrading the Cotswold Line I along with other CTC representatives had meetings with rail companies and National Rail. It was pointed out to us on more than one occasion the amount of complaints they get from passengers about bikes taking up too much space. Also they often stated, providing bike space is uneconomical for all the rail operators. These would still be reasons for not increasing cycle space even in a return to public ownership.


but they would say that, wouldn't they? No doubt they feel the same way about providing for accessible travel also. To be sure there will always be objections. That's life. As for the economics- well that's the reason for going back to public ownership, unless you are of the opinion that all public transport has to make a profit, regardless of public good. The fact is that when we had publicly owned railways it was a lot easier for me to travel by train with my bike. And that would have been true for a lot more people. If it was possible to have space for cycles and other items eg parcels on passenger trains in the past, it's possible again, if the will is there. The "rail operators" would then by British Rail, or whatever public body woluld run the railways. And critically, public bodies can be made accountable. Rail "operators" under privatisation do as they want, with active government encouragement. And that's the key- the government. The answer lies with the public, and ultimately the ballot box. It's down to us.

As for the CTC. I don't really want to labour this point again. Where's the high profile campaign? Youtube? Social media? LInks with other interested groups? Cultivating politicians who would like to see a return to publicly owned railways? No- none of this- just "meetings". Realistically, Cycling UK's approach over the years hasn't achieved what we'd like ie more bikes on trains. It's been a holding exercise at best, and ultimately is doomed to failure, given the push to driver only operation. I want Cycling UK to adopt a more radical approach, otherwise I suspect it may go the way of the NCU.

bikepacker
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby bikepacker » 15 Aug 2018, 7:52pm

atoz wrote:but they would say that, wouldn't they?


That is a typical reply of someone who wasn't at the meetings and did not see the evidence. As for the CTC being a radical campaigner, you have more chance of re-nationalising the railways. And as I said; that isn't ever going to happen.
There is your way. There is my way. But there is no "the way".

LollyKat
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Re: Seat Reservations with Cycle spaces

Postby LollyKat » 15 Aug 2018, 8:38pm

atoz wrote:The fact is that when we had publicly owned railways it was a lot easier for me to travel by train with my bike.


But for a long time you had to pay to take your bike - half the fare (possibly half the child fare) up to a maximum of £3, equivalent to about £30 now. It wasn't until 1977 after a long campaign by the CTC that they were carried free. There had been a trial, I think the year before, when you could send off for free bike tickets. This enabled BR to gauge the level of demand / potential increase in passengers - so many bike tickets were issued that they were persuaded that it would be worthwhile to allow free carriage. For a few years it was fantastic but the gradual demise of guard's vans has spoiled it all and we are getting back to the bad old days.