A63 - Victory for common sense -?

SA_SA_SA
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by SA_SA_SA »

Isn't it a bit of a dubious design when a motorway simply becomes an ordinary road without anything like a roundabout to slow drivers and be a visual reminder. Or Perhaps the ordinary section should be joined by a long non-straight exit slip road with many end of motorway signs and speed limit signs etc.
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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Is cyclining to be banned on some dual carriageway A63

Post by SA_SA_SA »

It occurs to me if cyclists are to be banned from a dual carriageway for being too slow then it is unreasonable to single them out (and unfair to other slower kinds of users) therefore if HE could be forced (by law or court case) to only have the choice between
banning all non-motorway users (ie tractors, mopeds etc) from a currently all-purpose road thus having to provide an alternative route for said larger range of banned vehicles
or
fixing the all-purpose by road by engineering and enforcement measures (eg lowering and enforcing speed limits, removing long slip roads etc) ,
then the alternative of applying safety measures to the all-purpose road might suddenly seem the more attractive option....?
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Pete Owens
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by Pete Owens »

thirdcrank wrote:Not directly related to time trialling but there's been a teenager killed on the A63, just beyond the end of the M62.

Hull A63 crash: Boy, 15, killed as car hits him

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-43532368


It is unlikely he was on the dual carriageway itself given that he was crossing the A63 at a grade separated junction. More likely he was crossing the slip road via the designated but uncontrolled crossing in the foreground of the photo - and judging by the blue sign in the background this is example of the sort of place that HE want to force us to use.
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by The utility cyclist »

Pete Owens wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:Not directly related to time trialling but there's been a teenager killed on the A63, just beyond the end of the M62.

Hull A63 crash: Boy, 15, killed as car hits him

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-43532368


It is unlikely he was on the dual carriageway itself given that he was crossing the A63 at a grade separated junction. More likely he was crossing the slip road via the designated but uncontrolled crossing in the foreground of the photo - and judging by the blue sign in the background this is example of the sort of place that HE want to force us to use.


He was on the dual carriageway itself, the report in the Hull Daily Mail specifically states the incident/collision was on the overhead section of the A63 nr the Brighton St. and St.Andrews Quay interchange and It was not on the sliproad in the photo which is misleading. https://goo.gl/maps/c3EcjedxhsQ2 Brighton street is to the left of the pic
thirdcrank
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by thirdcrank »

Here's the local rag, with another link to a pleas from the police to pedestrians not to cross this road.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hu ... 63-1382120
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RickH
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by RickH »

I see it is featured in the April/May 2018 edition Cycle Magazine (p16). For those that don't get/read the magazine I thought it worth quoting here
Duncan Dollimore in Cycle Magazine wrote:BATTLING THE A63 BAN
Highways England is seeking to ban cyclists from an A-road in Humberside. Duncan Dollimore explains why Cycling UK is fighting it

IN LATE JANUARY, without consulting cycling organisations, Highways England quietly applied for a traffic regulation order (TRO) on the A63 in Humberside. If you'd pulled your car over, or stopped while cycling down the slip road, you could have read the A4-size obligatory notice fixed to the sign, but otherwise you'd have been hard pushed to discover that the Government-owned company tasked with responsibility for operating England's major A-roads planned to ban cyclists from a 15-mile stretch of the A63, east of the North Cave junction.

The catalyst for the proposed TRO was probably a degree of annoyance and frustration about the number of time trials on the A63, but this isn't a ban on racing or other organised events: it's a complete ban on cycling, not just along the A63 but across many of the junctions. A vicar who lives just south of the A63, whose church lies just to the north, would be unable to cycle from home to work because the TRO also covers the slip roads on and off the A63, which he would ride on to access the bridge across the road.

So why is Highways England seeking this order? According to the TRO notice, it's because cyclists can't keep up with the motor traffic, though they're not banning tractors or horse-drawn vehicles. Of course, if that logic is followed, cyclists could be banned from most A-roads and many B-roads. That's why opposing this order is so important, because banning cyclists from roads for being too slow would set an extremely dangerous precedent.

Highways England's notice is misleading. It states that Hull City Council supports the proposal, when in fact a freedom of information request revealed the Council wasn't consulted. The casualty figures referred to are absolute numbers, with no rate-based analysis or comparison to motor vehicle casualty rates, or indeed with other roads. The proposed TRO is in breach of Highways England's own cycling strategy and guidelines. Oh, and the company won't answer questions about where it got its traffic-count data from, whom it's consulted, or what its alternative proposals for cyclists are.

Highways England hasn't made it easy for people to object, as it wouldn't accept email objections. So we set up an online tool for people to email their objections to us. And on 13 March, we delivered over 9,500 written objections to Highways England's offices in Leeds - by bike, of course.
(Hopefully I've caught all the slight typos from the scanning/OCR)
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by The utility cyclist »

Where is "Humberside"? Jesus wept Duncan dollimore really is in a time warp :roll:
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by Vorpal »

The utility cyclist wrote:Where is "Humberside"? Jesus wept Duncan dollimore really is in a time warp :roll:

I don't think that it is unreasonable to use the term.
-it is widely used in the media
-the proposal under discussion impacts more than one local authority
-some public organisations, such as police and fire service still use it
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by thirdcrank »

Perhaps the irony here is that the Humber Bridge was inspired by the concept of Humberside as a place. Without that, it would just be two areas of land on opposite sides of a big river. I think the idea was to replicate Merseyside, Clydeside etc.

When the government was keen on regions - eg Two Jags - one region was Yorkshire and the Humber, which really is daft.

FWIW, the Lord Mayor of (Kingston upon) Hull is also the Admiral of the Humber, although the latter title is also the name of at least one boozer.

http://www.hull.gov.uk/resident/council ... mayor-hull
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by The utility cyclist »

Vorpal wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Where is "Humberside"? Jesus wept Duncan dollimore really is in a time warp :roll:

I don't think that it is unreasonable to use the term.
-it is widely used in the media
-the proposal under discussion impacts more than one local authority
-some public organisations, such as police and fire service still use it

No it isn't used in the media "widely" to describe the East Riding of Yorkshire or East Yorkshire, maybe 15 years ago it was but it's 22 years since Humberside was removed, only the lazy use the term and It's not unreasonable to be accurate.
The A63 as it stands is in the East Riding of Yorkshire, Kingston upon Hull is in the East Riding of Yorkshire, that IS the geographical area, the authority is Highways England.
The fire and police have nothing to do with the discussion nor the geographical region, leftover names are for convenience and mean nothing more.
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by thirdcrank »

The utility cyclist wrote: ... The fire and police have nothing to do with the discussion ....


There was me thinking that the highwaymen were relying in part on alleged support from Humberside Police to get their ban through. :?

On a general point about campaigning for anything, there's usually benefit in concentrating your fire (ire?) on the other side, rather than dismissing your own side as a bunch of idiots.
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by The utility cyclist »

thirdcrank wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote: ... The fire and police have nothing to do with the discussion ....


There was me thinking that the highwaymen were relying in part on alleged support from Humberside Police to get their ban through. :?

On a general point about campaigning for anything, there's usually benefit in concentrating your fire (ire?) on the other side, rather than dismissing your own side as a bunch of idiots.

You used the word "idiot", I said it was lazy, a point of order regarding accuracy isn't firing upon anyone.
The name of the police in itself has zero bearing on the outcome even if they might have some influence.
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by Cyril Haearn »

The utility cyclist wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote: ... The fire and police have nothing to do with the discussion ....


There was me thinking that the highwaymen were relying in part on alleged support from Humberside Police to get their ban through. :?

On a general point about campaigning for anything, there's usually benefit in concentrating your fire (ire?) on the other side, rather than dismissing your own side as a bunch of idiots.

You used the word "idiot", I said it was lazy, a point of order regarding accuracy isn't firing upon anyone.
The name of the police in itself has zero bearing on the outcome even if they might have some influence.

It is like journalism as discussed elsewhere, when one finds a mistake in something one knows about, one cannae be sure if things one cannae check are right
Journalists are often under time pressure, is that an excuse? Might be easier to write polemic + opinion like lidel €€€
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by thirdcrank »

To be accurate, I said "Bunch of idiots."
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Re: Is time trialling to be banned on dual carriageways (A63)

Post by landsurfer »

Stop the bickering and get back to the problem at hand.

If this ban goes ahead can we expect a series of "Mass Protests" by cyclists standing up for ourselves.
Cyclists streaming down the slip roads in their hundreds and blocking the road in protest.
Or will it just be the usual wringing of hands and doing nothing.
Personally i'm up for the mass protest and even individual acts of protest to maintain cyclists right to ride.

Ensure our right to ride on the A63 !

Or we block it .... with cyclists, again and again.

Anyone with me...?
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