Unbelievably stupid PSV law

[Thornyone]

This isn’t directly a cycling issue, but it is certainly very relevant, particularly given that cyclists often share lanes with buses.
I was gobsmacked to put it mildly to hear of the trial of the Coventry bus driver who was found guilty of causing the deaths of two pedestrians when he mounted a pavement before crashing into a supermarket. This took place in 2015, and by the time of the driver’s trial yesterday he was suffering from dementia. It seems that at the time of the crash three years ago he may have confused the brake pedal and accelerator.

The main safety issues are:

1) He was driving a double-decker bus at age 77, quite legally.
2) He was working a 75 hour week quite legally.
3) Concerns had been raised about his driving not long before the incident, leading to his being monitored. His driving was pretty diabolical at that time. Alarm bells should have rung then to the extent of his PSV licence being revoked. His employer, Midland Red should, IMO, be facing very serious charges for their negligence.

I have never been too happy sharing a lane with buses and taxis, a common situation in my area certainly. But now, when I’m rather close-passed by ten tons of double decker, I’ll be giving it extra thought

[Tangled Metal]

I complained about the driving of a local bus and the company traced the bus and spoke to the driver. Assuming the same driver the next meeting with that bus was a much more pleasant affair. Plenty of space, sitting well back and only overtaking when he had at least 1.5m space and he could drive fully into the other lane.

Now it could be a different driver but from experience of using that bus they tend to run with the same drivers at v the same time each day. I was impressed! My first bus complaint and it seemed to have an effect.

Highly recommend complaining if your local bus drives badly. Take the route number, time and location of incident if you cannot get the reg number or unique bus number (if they have one).

[Mick F]

Heard all that on the news yesterday.

Until recently, I was a volunteer driver for the local Community Bus.

The drivers tend to be older and retired as they have the time available. I retired early - in my early 50s - and drove the bus regularly for a dozen years or more and started off as the youngest driver of the bus. I gave up driving it as it was taking up too much time, though I have left the option open for a return.

Insurance under 70 was reasonable, but the over 70s cost the charity much more. Don't quote me, but I think it was double the cost. Trouble is, as I say, the drivers tend to be retired, so there are a few over 70s. I'm 66 soon, and I always said that I would have given up driving the bus by then anyway.

Yes, it's a silly law.
Over 70s have to renew their driving licences and declare their fitness. I'd like to see it more stringent, plus a limit on the hours driving and definitely a weight limit. Double deckers and big coaches would be a no-no.

[Tangled Metal]

Why shouldn't psv and hgv drivers not be forced to have annual health and fitness checks? Big vehicles driven for commercial purposes. Make the companies pay for their drivers checks.

[Lance Dopestrong]

I read about that yesterday, terrible business. I'm troubled by the fact that his employers were aware of his relatively poor driving, as evidence by at least 3 collisions beforehand, and had done nothing more than give him words of advice over the matter. No re assessment of his skills, no examination to confirm there was not a medical cause, just a bit of a finger wagging.

[kwackers]

Why shouldn't psv and hgv drivers not be forced to have annual health and fitness checks? Big vehicles driven for commercial purposes. Make the companies pay for their drivers checks.

https://www.hgvtraining.co.uk/hgv-medical/

Currently HGV and PCV drivers need only to confirm their fitness by way of completing a medical once they reach the age of 45 (and every 5 years after till they reach 65 and then it's once every year.)

Doesn't explain why he wasn't caught by it though.

[al_yrpal]

I drove a Charity Bus, and for the final three years, until I was 70 I was Bus Manager responsible for selecting and training new drivers. I worked out the schedules, prepared posters and distributed them, arranged servicing and maintenance and drove trips as well. I gave it up simply because it took up too much time, up to 30 hours a month with phone calls every day. Now 3 people split what I did alone. But, I still feel I could drive it ok and help the old folk with their shopping and getting on and off etc. It does depend on how you are. I still drive my T25 Camper Van which is quite a bit smaller and thoroughly enjoy it even with no power steering. I definately think my cycling has had a massive beneficial effect on my health and general abilities.
I know of aged people like me who shouldnt be on the road with poor eyesight, poor judgement and slow reactions. Perhaps there should be some sort of assessment as one ages?
This incident with the bus driver is incredibly bad. The Company should be heavily fined and sanctioned. If I had allowed someone like that on tbe road I would have been responsible. If there was any doubt in my mind with people I let them go. It was a hard thing to do to volunteers but safety was Number One to my mind.

Al

[kwackers]

The problem with ageing is your brain lies to you so that you don't realise how bad your senses have gotten.

Filling in the blanks is a fundamental property of ones grey matter and as you get older the number of blanks increases at an alarming rate.

[100%JR]

There's a local Haulage company that my employer uses who have many drivers in their late 70s.They just don't seem to attract any younger drivers as the pay is low(for HGV) and the majority of their Tractor units are from the 1990s(no aircon/mod cons etc)These drivers are "tramping" all over the country.I don't begrudge anyone employment but 45t HGVs can cause absolute chaos in the event of an accident so surely 65 years old should be the absolute maximum for a HGV driver?

[Mick F]

What about a minimum age?

My aunt was a Florida girl, born in 1915? She would be given enough "gas" to get her school and back, and her father had to fit blocks onto the pedals for her to reach. She was 10 or 11 back then.

Her father was a moonshiner ........... but that's digressing somewhat!

[Cyril Haearn]

There's a local Haulage company that my employer uses who have many drivers in their late 70s.They just don't seem to attract any younger drivers as the pay is low(for HGV) and the majority of their Tractor units are from the 1990s(no aircon/mod cons etc)These drivers are "tramping" all over the country.I don't begrudge anyone employment but 45t HGVs can cause absolute chaos in the event of an accident so surely 65 years old should be the absolute maximum for a HGV driver?

+1, 65 or 60, just need to get young drivers from Romania, but they are used to driving on the other side

[mjr]

Seems rather ageist. How about retesting abilities instead?

[100%JR]

Seems rather ageist. How about retesting abilities instead?

Not really.
Our bodies do deteriorate as we age.All the drivers who come on the yard are hobbling about all say they're F*&^%$%^ but can't afford to retire as the pension is rubbish.It might not be the case for all drivers over 65 but if you've done 50+ years on a HGV your body will have suffered!

[mjr]

Seems rather ageist. How about retesting abilities instead?

Not really.
Our bodies do deteriorate as we age.

I'm well aware of that! But if theirs go in any way that matters, ability testing should pick it up.

Also, people deteriorate at different rates, as there are some pretty nimble 70+ year olds (often cyclists), while setting a hard limit of 60 would not stop a too-decrepit 55 year old driver from killing.

[tim-b]

Hi

Doesn't explain why he wasn't caught by it though.

It isn't a rigorous exam. It's mainly answering questions with very few medical checks: eyesight, height, weight, BP, and a urine sample spring to mind from my last one.
You can lie as happened in Scotland a few years ago (link)
I'd be interested in this too https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours
Regards
tim-b