“virtually indistinguishable” in the dark

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
We don't know for sure, non of us.
We may never know what happened exactly.
For that reason we can't blame either person.
My only niggle all though slight is the fact that the driver said words to that effect distracted by something else on road, but whether any credence in that could apportion blame to driver we can't tell.

From this case you would of thought that some recommendations would be made?

[Mick F]

I've been driving close on 50years.
In all that time, headlights have become brighter and whiter. In the old days, we had lights with just a normal filament in a sealed beam system.

I reckon that it was safer in those days. The headlights even on full beam weren't so bright that your pupils adjusted to what is more like daylight these days.

Just coz you have super-bright headlights, doesn't mean you can see any better than you could in the old sealed beam days.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Just drive faster as cars are safer........for the occupant's.........
On Fast flashing lights read red, that's ok, but some we have all seen are too slow, blinkers as mentioned are an example.........can you see them from a wide angle.............!
Fixed would remove what I see as a flaw.....dangerous flaw I.M.O.

[pwa]

Hi,
Was it a flashing rear red light?
Was it at least 1/2 watt? In other words was it bright in todays standards.
Did he have two rear lights?
Did he have reflectors?

I always have the above.
I have several rear facing reflective surfaces.

Even if the driver did nothing wrong / cannot be proved through lack of evidence / witnesses.
You need to do all you can to keep yourself safe and be seen.

RIP

P.S. the law allowing rear red light to flash in this country fixed to bike is stupid as on slow you can look - look away and look again and miss the light.
Lights are very low cost so there is no excuse not to have them, I see 80% of people in the dark in the morning with no lights at all today.
Remember I am a lone night cyclist too.
I think in Holland the drivers are legally more responsible than UK for cyclist even if its a economic cost?

I'm not making any judgement about this case as a whole, but, on one specific point, I do occasionally see a rear bike light that is so weak and pathetic that you have to stare at it to see it at all. If you think you need a rear light on, you need one that is bright enough to draw some attention to itself. If it isn't, what on earth is it for?

[mjr]

I'm not making any judgement about this case as a whole, but, on one specific point, I do occasionally see a rear bike light that is so weak and pathetic that you have to stare at it to see it at all. If you think you need a rear light on, you need one that is bright enough to draw some attention to itself. If it isn't, what on earth is it for?

Legal compliance. Remember, CTC campaigned against rear light compulsion in the UK and it wasn't without good reason.

[pwa]

I'm not making any judgement about this case as a whole, but, on one specific point, I do occasionally see a rear bike light that is so weak and pathetic that you have to stare at it to see it at all. If you think you need a rear light on, you need one that is bright enough to draw some attention to itself. If it isn't, what on earth is it for?

Legal compliance. Remember, CTC campaigned against rear light compulsion in the UK and it wasn't without good reason.

I don't think most folk with poor rear lights are thinking that way. I believe they are just too disorganised to charge their lights, and are hoping for the best.

[mjr]

Legal compliance. Remember, CTC campaigned against rear light compulsion in the UK and it wasn't without good reason.

I don't think most folk with poor rear lights are thinking that way. I believe they are just too disorganised to charge their lights, and are hoping for the best.

That seems rather a strange comment: aren't we all hoping for the best, whatever our lighting?

I suspect most people just don't care about their lights as long as:
1. the police can't fine them if they ever get stopped;
2. they can see where they're going and that only matters to the front light because bikes rarely reverse. After all, if you only ride along lit roads, even fairly bright rear lights add pretty much nothing to the very bright LED lights that are rapidly replacing most streetlights. Loads of motorists drive around town with no headlights on now because it's often barely noticeable from the driving seat that the car is unlit or only on daytime lights.

[bovlomov]

To all those saying that we don't really know -

I agree. But one of the points I raised was about the reporting. The casual way the supposed factors were addressed leads me to suspect that the Australian journalist is merely reflecting the general attitudes to cycling in that country. We don't know what was said at the inquest, but the tone of the quotes and of the reporting displays a casual dismisal of a cyclist's death, and an assumption that the driver couldn't have been expected to do anything different.

An inquiring mind would have attempted to clarify several of those statements, rather than glossing over them.

[pwa]

Legal compliance. Remember, CTC campaigned against rear light compulsion in the UK and it wasn't without good reason.

I don't think most folk with poor rear lights are thinking that way. I believe they are just too disorganised to charge their lights, and are hoping for the best.

That seems rather a strange comment: aren't we all hoping for the best, whatever our lighting?

I suspect most people just don't care about their lights as long as:
1. the police can't fine them if they ever get stopped;
2. they can see where they're going and that only matters to the front light because bikes rarely reverse. After all, if you only ride along lit roads, even fairly bright rear lights add pretty much nothing to the very bright LED lights that are rapidly replacing most streetlights. Loads of motorists drive around town with no headlights on now because it's often barely noticeable from the driving seat that the car is unlit or only on daytime lights.

We used to call token lights "bobby dodgers", just there to prevent the police bothering you. Personally, I would rather have a poor front light than a poor rear light.

[The utility cyclist]

https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/story.ph ... ideo_reply
here's a video by some guys at monesh uni, it clearly shows that the police are a bunch of liars prepared to pervert the course of justice to defend a killer motorist.
There should be a full investigation into the police and their disgusting inability to bring a killer to justice and why they've lied.
Mike Hall had a reflective part on the back of his jersey and i think helmet. The police destroyed his garments so they are not available to be inspected.
Hopefully this video and questions at the inquest by Anna Hall's legal rep paid for by donations to get her over will expose these criminals.

[reohn2]

https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/story.php?story_fbid=691735341190480&id=668020759887004&ref=m_notif&notif_t=video_reply
here's a video by some guys at monesh uni, it clearly shows that the police are a bunch of liars prepared to pervert the course of justice to defend a killer motorist.
There should be a full investigation into the police and their disgusting inability to bring a killer to justice and why they've lied.
Mike Hall had a reflective part on the back of his jersey and i think helmet. The police destroyed his garments so they are not available to be inspected.
Hopefully this video and questions at the inquest by Anna Hall's legal rep paid for by donations to get her over will expose these criminals.

Nuff said eh!

[bovlomov]

In that video he seems to have quite a large area of reflective material, and his rear light is bright. But even if his batteries were down, his front light was providing a bright pool of light moving in front of him (he wouldn't have been able to ride without it).

If they suppose the cause of his death was invisibility, then no cyclist is safe in Australia.

[pwa]

In that video he seems to have quite a large area of reflective material, and his rear light is bright. But even if his batteries were down, his front light was providing a bright pool of light moving in front of him (he wouldn't have been able to ride without it).

If they suppose the cause of his death was invisibility, then no cyclist is safe in Australia.

If the light was anything like as bright at the time of the crash, it ticks all the boxes I require ticking for a good effective rear light. That on its own should be enough to stop someone ploughing into you.

[Audax67]

In July I, when I was driving to a local town, I stopped at a roundabout for a van to cross in front of me. As I moved out I realized that there was a cyclist following him: he had been there all the time, but the gaudy truck had drawn my eye while his black/grey clothing had blended into the tall vegetation in the centre of the roundabout, making him about as easy to see as the alien in the first Predator movie.

And that was in broad daylight.

Earlier this year I acquired a rather nice dark blue jersey: it's now relegated to underwear status, ditto the plain black one some misguided wellwisher gave me recently. From now on I'm wearing bright clothing on top.

Black is a great colour - for funerals.

[bovlomov]

The inquest continues.

Hall “came out of nowhere” and didn’t appear to be wearing reflective clothing or strips.

He didn't appear to be?

Truck driver Anthony Shoard said Hall was “so close” when he cut across him to make a turn at about 4.30am

Is this a joke?

But a third driver, who had enhanced lights on her car, said she saw reflective strips on his arms and legs which were visible with headlights on low beam. Jennifer Perrin spotted Hall on her way to work in Canberra, saying it was possibly the first time in 31 years living in the region she had seen someone riding on that road.

And here, I think, may be the cause of death....

“It was very odd to see a cyclist on the road and particularly at that time of day,”

You wouldn't expect to find a cyclist there, so you'd be forgiven for ploughing into him. If that's what they mean, then they should say so. Stop pretending it was anything to do with lights or reflective clothing.

Don't cycle in Australia, folks!