Too Close for Comfort

[robing]

Saw this at the cycle show, looked quite a good deterrent to close passes:

https://l-bow.co/

[fastpedaller]

Looks more of a 'measure of how close I can go' from my perspective (I add I am a life-long cyclist and always give cyclists good room)
Not sure about that product - the old lollipop was just as good (if not better, 'cos it was longer)

[Steady rider]

Many motorists speed, some may drink drive, some may pass red lights, most occur without accidents. A fixed penalty notice may in most cases be the way to go with close passing. It is providing an incentive to drive safer, that is required. This morning on 'Look North' they mentioned the police will be cracking down on cyclists without lights in York, a £50 fine. A similar warning to motorists could be given periodically, so it is really a matter of providing a suitable law, with guidelines where helpful, and some level of enforcement. If police vehicles have their cameras running when on duty, they would not have to stop a vehicles, pass on the number to the enforcement section, with the video link to the evidence. Unusually a fine could be issued. If contested I imaging the CPS may then be part of procedures.

[thirdcrank]

Many motorists speed, some may drink drive, some may pass red lights, most occur without accidents. A fixed penalty notice may in most cases be the way to go with close passing. It is providing an incentive to drive safer, that is required. This morning on 'Look North' they mentioned the police will be cracking down on cyclists without lights in York, a £50 fine. A similar warning to motorists could be given periodically, so it is really a matter of providing a suitable law, with guidelines where helpful, and some level of enforcement. If police vehicles have their cameras running when on duty, they would not have to stop a vehicles, pass on the number to the enforcement section, with the video link to the evidence. Unusually a fine could be issued. If contested I imaging the CPS may then be part of procedures.

A fixed penalty notice is an offer to be allowed to pay a fixed sum to avoid proceedings. If it's not accepted, then proceedings normally follow so the evidence should be sufficient when the ticket is issued to to prove the case at court if that happens. Media releases about crackdowns are now common and IMO they impress the people who are impressed; frequent offenders know that little happens. Since the fixed penalty system was extended to include careless/ inconsiderate driving, there have been at least two national media releases about fixed penalties for passing cyclists too closely which I've mentioned on here. Ditto hogging the centre lane on motorways.

In short, most of what you are suggesting is in place already, except a specific offence quoting a minimum distance, which would just make it all harder to prove to the criminal standard. This is reality versus pipe dreams.

[Cugel]

Many motorists speed, some may drink drive, some may pass red lights, most occur without accidents. A fixed penalty notice may in most cases be the way to go with close passing. It is providing an incentive to drive safer, that is required. This morning on 'Look North' they mentioned the police will be cracking down on cyclists without lights in York, a £50 fine. A similar warning to motorists could be given periodically, so it is really a matter of providing a suitable law, with guidelines where helpful, and some level of enforcement. If police vehicles have their cameras running when on duty, they would not have to stop a vehicles, pass on the number to the enforcement section, with the video link to the evidence. Unusually a fine could be issued. If contested I imaging the CPS may then be part of procedures.

A fixed penalty notice is an offer to be allowed to pay a fixed sum to avoid proceedings. If it's not accepted, then proceedings normally follow so the evidence should be sufficient when the ticket is issued to to prove the case at court if that happens. Media releases about crackdowns are now common and IMO they impress the people who are impressed; frequent offenders know that little happens. Since the fixed penalty system was extended to include careless/ inconsiderate driving, there have been at least two national media releases about fixed penalties for passing cyclists too closely which I've mentioned on here. Ditto hogging the centre lane on motorways.

In short, most of what you are suggesting is in place already, except a specific offence quoting a minimum distance, which would just make it all harder to prove to the criminal standard. This is reality versus pipe dreams.

Pipe dreams - an alternative delusion to wishful thunks.

In societies without law, the mechanism for avoiding constant strife is the arrangement establishing social norms and punishments for breaking them. The punishment is often no more than mockery and shaming, which are surprisingly effective with humans.

So, knowing that the law in respect of motoring (and, sadly, much else these days) is in disrepute or simply ignored, I like to do my social duty by mocking and shaming various bad behaviours, particularly those of the inept and dangerous drivers. This can be an onerous task, as drivers are very sensitive to the slightest criticism or mock. Well, I am!

One must persist and shrug off the spit, cries of rage and even the odd physical blow. When mocked and provided with the opportunity to feel shame, it often seems not to take - at the time. Later on, changes can be observed. The mock&shame meme has worked its way into their tiny minds and they fear another mocking, so .... they sometimes improve. And often don't. Still, any improvement is worth trying for.

Some form a hatred of the mocker. Personally I don't mind as I have a queer inhibition about being liked. (No, I don't know why).

How do you react to mocking & shaming? I'm used to it from the daughters, wife, collies and virtually everyone. Still it affects me and I often do other than I used to, much to the daughters' delight and the wife's satisfaction. On the other hand, woe betide the fool who criticises the cut of my merino cycling apparel! They soon learn the meaning of "escalation". I go for their hairstyle first.

Cugel

[FasterFerret]

Saw this at the cycle show, looked quite a good deterrent to close passes:

https://l-bow.co/

I looked at this and watched the video.

Is it me, or is there something about the riding style of the guy with the orange jacket that makes you focus more on him than the light that they are trying to advertise?

[thirdcrank]

Let me say that I'm not always a supporter of CyclingUK and previously CTC policies. On occasions, I've been an outspoken critic: the 2008 revision of the HC probably being the strongest example. On this occasion, however, I agree with the policy which is being discussed now.

Of course, it would be technically feasible to measure the passing distance accurately. Just make it compulsory for all cyclists to have some sort of gismo to the extreme right of their bike, perhaps on a short stub, and for all motor vehicles to have a gizmo in the nearside mirror with a system to make both gizmos communicate with each other and then automatically flag up offences and issue the necessary paperwork.

This pipe dreaming of my own reminds me that the biggest future threat will be from autonomous vehicles. This is where precise parameters will be necessary and their developers may not be keen to have them set generously. IMO, this is the area which campaigners including CyclingUK should be working.
(Edited to remove a stray @ )

[Steady rider]

Assuming a self driving vehicles passes too close, who can be charged with an offence?

http://www.eco-logica.co.uk/pdf/wtpp24.2.pdf
page 50

Take cyclists, Carlos Ghosn, Nissan’s
CEO, is no fan of people on bikes. In-
deed he hates them. In a speech in
January 2017 to introduce a prototype
DC he told CBNC that the arrival of the
technology could be delayed by cyclists
who he said, don’t respect any rules
usually.”
“Ghosn said “One of the biggest prob-
lems is people with bicycles. The car
is confused by [cyclists] because from
time to time they behave like pedestri-
ans and from time to time they behave
like cars

”

Ghosn appears to have no understanding of cyclists.

Ps I think CTC policy is insufficient, leaving it up to police forces to decide if they wish to take part. The law is a much stronger means to create a change in driving culture, mainly for those who deliberately pass too close or are not willing to wait. The mats are the soft approach to people who endanger others deliberately.

[PhileasFogg]

Broadly welcome this initiative and have read the previous posts with interest. I thought I'd throw my tuppence worth in with regards to mats already issued and now the VR headsets to all UK territorial police forces (I'm assuming the specialist non territorial forces i.e. BTP, MDP and CNC are not included). Reading the official post for the current VR kickstarter campaign the idea is to raise funds from the membership to supply all UK Police forces with a VR headset fair enough. However as an example the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) jurisdiction has a population in excess of 8 million inhabitants, likewise Police Scotland which is now a national force has a population in excess of 5 million. Contrast this with a Police force such as Warwickshire with a population just north of 550 thousand and you might see a disparity emerging in that some of the bigger Policing jurisdictions would need quite a few more than 1 if they are to have the slightest chance of being an effective educational tool for their respective road policing departments. By my reckoning Wales would get 4 (4 Territorial Police Forces) population just over 3 million. Scotland would get 1 as would the MPS. At time of writing the kickstarter campaign has almost reached its £15000 target and will most probably exceed it. I do hope that first and foremost all forces have access to the headsets as looks likely but that any excess funds should send additional headsets to the respective jurisdictions with the larger populations.

[Flinders]

Assuming a self driving vehicles passes too close, who can be charged with an offence?

http://www.eco-logica.co.uk/pdf/wtpp24.2.pdf
page 50

Take cyclists, Carlos Ghosn, Nissan’s
CEO, is no fan of people on bikes. In-
deed he hates them. In a speech in
January 2017 to introduce a prototype
DC he told CBNC that the arrival of the
technology could be delayed by cyclists
who he said, don’t respect any rules
usually.”
“Ghosn said “One of the biggest prob-
lems is people with bicycles. The car
is confused by [cyclists] because from
time to time they behave like pedestri-
ans and from time to time they behave
like cars

”

Ghosn appears to have no understanding of cyclists.

Ps I think CTC policy is insufficient, leaving it up to police forces to decide if they wish to take part. The law is a much stronger means to create a change in driving culture, mainly for those who deliberately pass too close or are not willing to wait. The mats are the soft approach to people who endanger others deliberately.

Yet another reason I'm glad we no longer have a Nissan...