"Car dependency" - a depressing report

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Mick F
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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby Mick F » 25 Oct 2018, 8:05am

I mentioned this on another thread a few weeks ago. Looks like I'm ahead of the game! :D

Tavistock has a couple of industrial estates in the middle of the town. Not the town centre, but less than half a mile from it.
Meanwhile, there's a plethora of new housing schemes out on green-field sites out to the north of the town on country roads. No street lights, no pavements, no bus service, no shops, no facilities, no nothing.

What they should have done - and it only occurred to me a few weeks ago - was to instead of building housing out there, to build new industrial estates instead. In return, they could pull down the existing industrial units and build houses there.

These homes would be in walking distance of schools, shops, the town centre, bus stops, supermarkets, parkland and play areas, pubs, cafes, footpaths along the river, everything people want ............ but in walking distance.
Mick F. Cornwall

pwa
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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby pwa » 25 Oct 2018, 8:13am

You don't have to ban car use and parking on large new estates in order to promote a more balanced approach to car use. All you have to do is make the non-motorised network of tracks direct and efficient, and make the routes for motorised traffic sinuous, slow and less convenient. And have direct high quality walking /cycling routes to shops and schools. Slow to get round by car, quick and easy by foot or bike. That is all that is needed.

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Mick F
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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby Mick F » 25 Oct 2018, 9:57am

pwa wrote: Slow to get round by car, quick and easy by foot or bike. That is all that is needed.
This is very true.

Walking in Plymouth shopping etc, it always gets up my nose that we pedestrians have to walk further just to get around the roads and junctions. Some places, it takes three or four separate crossings (with lights you need to wait for) just to get across to the other side. Not all places have underpasses, but where they are there, it's a long drag there and back.

I feel sometimes that whole streets should be one wide zebra crossing and all traffic has to give way to all pedestrians at all times.
Mick F. Cornwall

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al_yrpal
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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby al_yrpal » 25 Oct 2018, 11:41am

In our villages latest housing development of 50 houses which lies on a pretty busy B road our Parish Council insisted on a cycle path to connect with the main village and that this path was extended to an older development and public open space further out. There is also a footpath through adjacent land to a bus stop.
There is also another new development of 70 houses and half the farmers land offered had to be allocated to a new village playing field and pavilion. And, they arent allowed to lay a single brick until this is landscaped and completed. We never had a playing field and the new villagers will be paying for it.

All this waa insisted upon by our fantastic local parish council. With great leadership they are transforming a mundane village into a great place to live. I would be quite happy if our Parish Council made all our laws, ran the Police and collected taxes. Local government that responds to local desires is great. Its one of the reasons I voted to leave the unresponsive EU Superstate, its remote, undemocratic and a total waste of money.

Al
Last edited by al_yrpal on 25 Oct 2018, 1:46pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby Vorpal » 25 Oct 2018, 1:05pm

There are some places where good access for cyclists and pedestrians has been provided, shops and schools are near, etc. Some new housing estates in Colchester are pretty good that way, but they are on former military sites, in the town, or near new shopping areas on the edge.

The problem is that for each one that is done right, there are 8 or 9 that are crap. The only cycle paths go nowhere & were clearly put in to tick a box. The main access road is busy and only getting busier. No public transport to speak of, etc.
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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby mjr » 25 Oct 2018, 1:21pm

Mick F wrote:I feel sometimes that whole streets should be one wide zebra crossing and all traffic has to give way to all pedestrians at all times.

I would love that, if only to see local media catch fire with the ranting. No politician would dare allow it. The diatribes directed at Norwich's busiest city centre zebra crossing of a through road (not even an A road) in local media letters and comments pages are absolutely astonishing. It seems that some think that all of the city's traffic problems would be solved just by replacing that one crossing with yet another placebo pushbutton puffin-toucan. :roll:
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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby Bonefishblues » 25 Oct 2018, 5:21pm

mjr wrote:
Mick F wrote:I feel sometimes that whole streets should be one wide zebra crossing and all traffic has to give way to all pedestrians at all times.

I would love that, if only to see local media catch fire with the ranting. No politician would dare allow it. The diatribes directed at Norwich's busiest city centre zebra crossing of a through road (not even an A road) in local media letters and comments pages are absolutely astonishing. It seems that some think that all of the city's traffic problems would be solved just by replacing that one crossing with yet another placebo pushbutton puffin-toucan. :roll:

All looks perfectly fine as-is to me.

On a complete tangent, it's nice to see Planners doing a good job, as seems evident from the street scene.

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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby brynpoeth » 4 Jan 2019, 5:23pm

People are 'forced' to drive to shop because food stores are built in clusters, one place near me there are four together plus a wholefood store and another new one in the train station nearby :(

The Authorities should direct the retailers to spread the stores out where people live, not clustered together in industrial areas
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby Bonefishblues » 4 Jan 2019, 5:33pm

That used to be the way. They were successful. Times changed and eventually nobody shopped in them. They closed, to open again clustered together in 'destinations'. These have prospered.

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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby brynpoeth » 4 Jan 2019, 5:37pm

Bonefishblues wrote:That used to be the way. They were successful. Times changed and eventually nobody shopped in them. They closed, to open again clustered together in 'destinations'. These have prospered.

Times changed, how? Surely people had to eat back then, just as much :?
I would not care whether my local store was an a or a l or a coop
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras & STOP signs

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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby Bonefishblues » 4 Jan 2019, 6:13pm

brynpoeth wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:That used to be the way. They were successful. Times changed and eventually nobody shopped in them. They closed, to open again clustered together in 'destinations'. These have prospered.

Times changed, how? Surely people had to eat back then, just as much :?
I would not care whether my local store was an a or a l or a coop

More people working. Higher levels of car ownership. Society's loss of the ability to walk. Changed, and much more cosmopolitan tastes are a few that come to mind.

The traditional small local shop had something of a niche, indeed has staged a comeback in the form of the convenience store - now dominated by the large retailers (I remember they were already sniffing around when I was working in that sector many years ago), but the food retail space has changed out of all recognition during the last c3 decades.

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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby TrevA » 4 Jan 2019, 6:15pm

brynpoeth wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:That used to be the way. They were successful. Times changed and eventually nobody shopped in them. They closed, to open again clustered together in 'destinations'. These have prospered.

Times changed, how? Surely people had to eat back then, just as much :?
I would not care whether my local store was an a or a l or a coop


I live in a small town (pop 10,000). We have an Aldi, a Lidl, a Co-op and a Sainsburys Local. No large supermarket, the nearest one is 5 miles away. We manage quite nicely with those 4 shops, plus the few independents - butchers, bakers, etc.

There were plans to build a large Tesco store but they have never come to fruition and with the Aldi and Lidl it is not needed.

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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby Bonefishblues » 4 Jan 2019, 6:19pm

TrevA wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:That used to be the way. They were successful. Times changed and eventually nobody shopped in them. They closed, to open again clustered together in 'destinations'. These have prospered.

Times changed, how? Surely people had to eat back then, just as much :?
I would not care whether my local store was an a or a l or a coop


I live in a small town (pop 10,000). We have an Aldi, a Lidl, a Co-op and a Sainsburys Local. No large supermarket, the nearest one is 5 miles away. We manage quite nicely with those 4 shops, plus the few independents - butchers, bakers, etc.

There were plans to build a large Tesco store but they have never come to fruition and with the Aldi and Lidl it is not needed.

Superstore development stalled (indeed has reversed) c5 years ago. I wonder what the big food retailers have done/are doing with their huge land banks?

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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby ThePinkOne » 4 Jan 2019, 8:50pm

pwa wrote:You don't have to ban car use and parking on large new estates in order to promote a more balanced approach to car use. All you have to do is make the non-motorised network of tracks direct and efficient, and make the routes for motorised traffic sinuous, slow and less convenient. And have direct high quality walking /cycling routes to shops and schools. Slow to get round by car, quick and easy by foot or bike. That is all that is needed.


Plus somewhere reasonable to lock the bike up to at the shopping end. Maybe even a "parking warden" to discourage noorty people doing bad things at said cycle parking.

That's what discourages me from using a bike for local shopping, although in fairness the hairdresser I go to is happy for me to take my bike into the salon with me :D .

TPO

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Re: "Car dependency" - a depressing report

Postby basingstoke123 » 5 Jan 2019, 9:12pm

brynpoeth wrote:Times changed, how? Surely people had to eat back then, just as much :?

The evidence would suggest that people now eat more? The growing population (at individual level, that is) cannot be due only to less physical activity.